8th SS Florian Geyer Division

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Myself and Ron were talking about this Division in another thread and so, given that I found some info on it I thought I'd post it here.

Feldgrau.net has this info on the formation: REference: 8.SS-Kavallerie-Division "Florian Geyer"

8.SS-Kav.Div. "Florian Geyer"

SS-Kav.Rgt.15-18, SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt.8, SS-Art.Rgt.(mot) 8, SS-Flak/Abt.8, SS-Pz.Jäg.Abt.8, SS-Pion.Btl.(mot) 8, SS-Nachr.Abt.(mot) 8

Div.Truppen: SS Nr. 8

Div.Kdr.: Gustav Lombard, Hermann Fegelein, Wilhelm Bittrich, Fritz Freitag, Gustav Lombard, Hermann Fegelein, Bruno Streckenbach, Hermann Fegelein, Bruno Streckenbach, Gustav Lombard, Joachim Rumohr
The main formations and Commanders are listed above

[Gotthard Heinrici]

On this page it also states that Florian Geyer's final battles were in Budapest, So Owen, any insight into the fate of Florian Geyer??

[Owen]

The index of that Battle of Budapest book makes it difficult to find reference to 8th SS Kav Div but here is one extract.(it doesn't list units in the index only names and places.)

South and west of the hill, in front of the Karoly kiraly Barracks (today Petofi Barracks) and in Farkasret Cemetery, the 8th SS Cavalry Division's companies were posted in the front line , with the battery of their anti-aircraft artillery immediately behind them, and a Hungarian anti-aircraft battery behind the cemetery . The defence was further supported by Hungarian assault guns and Hetzer anti-tank guns .

[Owen]

Strength of 8th SS Cavalry Division in Budapest on 24th Decemebr 1944.
Ration Strengh c8000,
Guns c30
Tanks and assault guns (deployable or under repair) 29
Heavy anti-tank guns 17

Their Div HQ was on Gellert-hegy Hill.
Bascially they were ground down by the Soviets until there weren't many of them left.

[von Poop]

The SS-Kavalrie seem an interesting example of the successful use of an apparent military anachronism. In the 'anti-partisan' and lines of comms/supply protection role they proved handy in Russia's rough terrain against such a fluid target.
Wasn't all horses though, as the Florian-Geyer was the first to be issued with the Jg.Pzr.38t (Hetzer).

Fegelein must have been one of Hitler's last executions of a high ranking aide (28th April '45)?

Interesting that Geyer himself (Lutheran anti-catholic knight of the 16th century) was chosen as a hero for both the Marxist movement and an SS unit!

The obligatory 'Signal!' shot of the unit:

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Originally Posted by Von Poop

The SS-Kavalrie seem an interesting example of the successful use of an apparent military anachronism. In the 'anti-partisan' and lines of comms/supply protection role they proved handy in Russia's rough terrain against such a fluid target.
Wasn't all horses though, as the Florian-Geyer was the first to be issued with the Jg.Pzr.38t (Hetzer).

Fegelein must have been one of Hitler's last executions of a high ranking aide (28th April '45)?

Interesting that Geyer himself (Lutheran anti-catholic knight of the 16th century) was chosen as a hero for both the Marxist movement and an SS unit!

The obligatory 'Signal!' shot of the unit:

Here is an excerpt from a website about SS anti-partisan activities Waffen-SS: The Partisan War:

In Russia, the Higher SS and Police Leaders soon became key figures in the partisan war. As far as Himmler and the SS were concerned, the campaign to eliminate the Jews was identical to the struggle against the partisans. In July 1941 Himmler appointed a top SS officer, Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski, to be Higher SS and Police Leader in the Army Group Centre rear operations zone. His first job was to comb the Pripet Marshes looking for Jews. In September 1941 he declared his philosophy, stating that "where there is a Jew, there is a partisan, and wherever there is a partisan there is a Jew".
Bach-Zelewski basically took over all anti-partisan operations in central Russia during 1941 and into 1942, organizing joint sweeps of partisan-controlled territory with Waffen-SS troops and army units. He was provided with a number of Waffen-SS units, including a motorized infantry brigade and the cavalry brigade led by Hermann Fegelein. Along with assorted police units, the SS general had some 36,000 men under his direct command and could also call on several thousand army soldiers. Fegelein was particularly zealous in his work, launching a series of killing actions in the Pripet Marshes that left 1000 suspected partisans, 699 Red Army soldiers and 14,178 Jews dead.

[von Poop]

Good stuff on the Budapest fighting from 'HE129' on Military photos.:
The Siege of Budapest - Military Photos

There's a 'then & now' challenge in there as well. To find the locations of those familiar shots of Tiger II's on the streets of the city.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

And From VP's link comes the info regarding the 8th SS Florian Geyer

8th SS-Kavallerie Division Florian Geyer:

December 1944: Soviets reach shores of Lake Balaton, Hungary; division strength: 13,000; division fighting troops from the Soviet IV Guards Mechanized Corps.
Axis forces pull back to the "Budapest Bridgehead" positions
Dec 4: Hungarian Arrow Cross leader Ferenc Szálasi orders the house-to-house defense of Budapest
Dec 17: Division sets up Feldlazarett at Budapest's Hotel Britania.
Dec 24: Budapest surrounded by 250,000 Soviet troops from the 2nd & 3rd Ukrainian Front; siege begins, 800,000 civilians trapped in city. SS units pullback to Buda on the west bank of the Danube river.
Dec 27: Soviets capture Vesces
Dec 28: Budapest resupply situation becomes critical

January 1945: heavy combat Budapest.
Jan 1: Division reports 439 casualties (KIA, WIA, MIA) since Dec 1.
Jan 7: Heavy combat Kispest district
Jan 11 & 14: Arrow Cross gangs? stage pogroms in Budepest's Jewish Ghetto.
Jan 12-15: Heavy combat
Jan 17: Franz-Joseph bridge destroyed; all axis troops evacuated from Pest.
Jan 19: Buda pocket roughly 1 km long, 1km deep

February 1945: Feb 5: the surviving 88mm guns of Kampfgruppe Portugall withdrawn to the Castle Hill/government center area. Feb 11: Remnants of division attempt last-ditch breakout attempt
Feb 12: Division annihiliated in fall of Budapest.; only 170 survivors of division reach German lines; Division CO SS-Brigaführer Joachim Rumohr commits suicide; remaining survivors transferred to 37th SS cavalry Division

Could I just at this point give kudos to Owen for bringing the Battle of Budapest to the Attention of this forum?? I never knew it was that big of a battle but it seems to be right up there with the Fall of Berlin both in terms of fighting and of casualties. It is a battle that deserves to be studied in more detail and I will be for sure. Now that we have this some info on the activities of 8th in the Pripet Marshes would be a worthy aspiration!

[Owen]

Just add this little bit about one of the Regiments of the Division in Budapest.

Soviet anti-tank units destroyed two German tanks and anti-tank guns in Kiralyhago Square and occupied the buildings south , north and west.
In the evening the 16th SS Cavalry Regiment gave up its base at the corner of Nemetvolgyi Road and Farkasret Cemetery.......with Seshegy Hill essentially encircled , the annihilation of the German unit trapped in Farkasret cemetery and the storm on Kis-Gellert Hill and Deli Station began.

On 6 Feburary fighting was fiercest near Deli Station and in Hegyalja Road, where Soviet combat units included officers equipped with flame throwers .....A counter attack launched by 8th SS Cavalry Division from the southeast and northwest towards Sashegy Hill was checked by strong Soviet opposition

.

[pzjgr]

The Waffen SS has been a special interest for me and I have not yet reached the 8th for research but am surprised to see Wilhelm Bittrich's name as a commander. Surprised because I would have thought Sepp Dietrich would not be forthcoming in letting some of the old guard go to some obscure (my perception of the 'Florian Geyer') unit. Either they were sent to the Guard Abteilung in Berlin, as aides to Hitler or in later years, were sent as a cadre for the HJ division. Can't wait to read more on this unit. Thanks.