Help wanted

Goldilocks · 11-11-2007, 04:56 PM

Hi I'm a new user and hope you can help me.
I have heard a story told in my family about one of the older men who was part of the London Rifle Brigade during World War II. They had been in Tobruk then came into Italy via the Sicily Landings. they went up through Italy were at Monte Casino, then when they were in the North of Italy they were told that they would have to march into Germany. I have been told that large groups of soldiers from different regiments were given leave, but then didn't go back and were reported AWOL. Not long after the War finished but that they were still classed as deserted. Some of them were ill and suffering from fatigue and couldn't face going on.
I was told that there were large numbers of soldiers but have never been able to find much out about it? Does any one know more about the story or is it something that has been covered up?

Rich Payne · 11-11-2007, 05:12 PM

I think that you need "Mutiny at Salerno 1943" which Naval & Military have on special offer at the moment

Naval & Military Press

Rich

handtohand22 · 11-11-2007, 05:19 PM

Also try The Desertion Crisis in Italy 1944.
RUSI Journal 147: pages 76 - 83 dated 2002

Type in the first line as key words on the search engines.

Salerno Mutiny gets you to

Salerno Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the Hansard report on there is a good read.

Owen · 11-11-2007, 06:45 PM

Welcome to the site Goldilocks, watch out for the 3 bears.
I've read the Saul David book, excellent read.

kfz · 11-11-2007, 08:06 PM

Not really any great cover up. Getting a lot of press this subject the moment becuase of the pardons of some deserters in WW1. WW2 was a different matter, battle fatugue was well reconsided and acted upon. Many men who couldnt go on, cos they ddint want to or had had enough where removed from the front line. Well documented.

Kev

Goldilocks · 11-11-2007, 11:35 PM

Thanks everyone. Think it must have been 1944 as it happened just before the end of the war and it was definetly in the north not Salerno.
Will have a read of The Desertion Crisis and see what that says thanks

I have lived all my life with the effects that war can have on a person.
So today is quite an important day for me.

51highland · 12-11-2007, 02:25 PM

Am I right in thinking that most of the men involved in the "Mutiny" were from various regiments and did not refuse to fight, but refused to fight unless it was with their own regiments and mates. I am sure I read that a lot of the men had been recovering from wounds etc. and were expecting to go back to their mates.

Owen · 12-11-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51highland

Am I right in thinking that most of the men involved in the "Mutiny" were from various regiments and did not refuse to fight, but refused to fight unless it was with their own regiments and mates. I am sure I read that a lot of the men had been recovering from wounds etc. and were expecting to go back to their mates.

At Salerno, yes, they were all 50 & 51st Div men.
Wimberley , the GOC of 51st Div told his men they had to do all they could to return to that Division.
As for this 1944 query of Goldilocks, I have no clue.

Goldilocks · 12-11-2007, 09:27 PM

This was about at least 15/20 men that were with Rifle Brigade/Green Jackets, but I was always told that there were men from other regiments.
This group made their way back down Italy and were recaptured in dribs and drabs over the next year after the war had finished.
I was always told that most of them were ill or war weary. I know that they were mostly tired of fighting. I was trying to find out if it was just this small group or as I had been told quite large groups, from different regiments.

It was a story that I grew up with and always wondered how much was true and how much had been extended in telling.
I have frinds in Italy who used to tell us stories of the soldiers that came through during the war.
I have a friend who's father was one of the Italian soldiers at Monte Casino, and after the battle as they had no ammunition decided to walk home to Perugia. It took them 5 days with no shoes and only very little clothing. They all have many stories of the war.

11-11-2007, 04:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Goldilocks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3	Help wanted Hi I'm a new user and hope you can help me. I have heard a story told in my family about one of the older men who was part of the London Rifle Brigade during World War II. They had been in Tobruk then came into Italy via the Sicily Landings. they went up through Italy were at Monte Casino, then when they were in the North of Italy they were told that they would have to march into Germany. I have been told that large groups of soldiers from different regiments were given leave, but then didn't go back and were reported AWOL. Not long after the War finished but that they were still classed as deserted. Some of them were ill and suffering from fatigue and couldn't face going on. I was told that there were large numbers of soldiers but have never been able to find much out about it? Does any one know more about the story or is it something that has been covered up?

11-11-2007, 05:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
handtohand22 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Coleraine Co. Londonderry NI Posts: 312	Also try The Desertion Crisis in Italy 1944. RUSI Journal 147: pages 76 - 83 dated 2002 Type in the first line as key words on the search engines. Salerno Mutiny gets you to Salerno Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the Hansard report on there is a good read. Last edited by handtohand22; 11-11-2007 at 06:14 PM. Reason: additions

12-11-2007, 02:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
51highland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ipswich Posts: 833	Am I right in thinking that most of the men involved in the "Mutiny" were from various regiments and did not refuse to fight, but refused to fight unless it was with their own regiments and mates. I am sure I read that a lot of the men had been recovering from wounds etc. and were expecting to go back to their mates. __________________ 51 highland www.keep-em-moving.com Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean (Friends are good in the day of battle) Na diobair caraid's a charraid (Forsake not a friend in the fray) Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann . Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath. (In memory of the Heroes who are no more. May their Fame live on forever)

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11-11-2007, 05:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rich Payne Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 737	I think that you need "Mutiny at Salerno 1943" which Naval & Military have on special offer at the moment Naval & Military Press Rich

11-11-2007, 06:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Owen Grumpy Old Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 9,485	Welcome to the site Goldilocks, watch out for the 3 bears. I've read the Saul David book, excellent read.

11-11-2007, 08:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
kfz Very Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 1,144	Not really any great cover up. Getting a lot of press this subject the moment becuase of the pardons of some deserters in WW1. WW2 was a different matter, battle fatugue was well reconsided and acted upon. Many men who couldnt go on, cos they ddint want to or had had enough where removed from the front line. Well documented. Kev

11-11-2007, 11:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Goldilocks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3	Thanks everyone. Think it must have been 1944 as it happened just before the end of the war and it was definetly in the north not Salerno. Will have a read of The Desertion Crisis and see what that says thanks I have lived all my life with the effects that war can have on a person. So today is quite an important day for me.

12-11-2007, 09:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
Goldilocks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3	This was about at least 15/20 men that were with Rifle Brigade/Green Jackets, but I was always told that there were men from other regiments. This group made their way back down Italy and were recaptured in dribs and drabs over the next year after the war had finished. I was always told that most of them were ill or war weary. I know that they were mostly tired of fighting. I was trying to find out if it was just this small group or as I had been told quite large groups, from different regiments. It was a story that I grew up with and always wondered how much was true and how much had been extended in telling. I have frinds in Italy who used to tell us stories of the soldiers that came through during the war. I have a friend who's father was one of the Italian soldiers at Monte Casino, and after the battle as they had no ammunition decided to walk home to Perugia. It took them 5 days with no shoes and only very little clothing. They all have many stories of the war.

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