From one "veteran" to any other

[Ron Goldstein]

Strictly from one "veteran" to any other and posed with the utmost respect:

Before we all move on to other spheres, there is one question I have been dying to ask and only other veterans can supply the answer (although non-veterans are, of course, free to comment).

Firstly, and speaking strictly from my own experience.

To the best of my memory I can recall only two episodes in the whole of my army career when someone of significant rank explained to me either what was going on in the area of battle to which my unit was committed or/and where we stood in the grand picture of history in the making.

The first episode took place in Rieti in Northern Italy and I refer to my diaries:

Tuesday 19th December 1944
Tank recognition by models in the Intelligence Room. All afternoon spent in ABCA (Army Bureau of Current Affairs) room talking about "what to do with the Germans after the war!"

The second episode was immediately after the war in Europe:

Wednesday 2nd. May 1945
Jerry threw his hand in Italy and Austria. Fired all our 2" mortars, phosphorous bombs and verey lights and had bonfires all over the shop.
Cease fire about 11 pm. ( At noon today the Germans signed an unconditional surrender at Caserta)

Within days the whole regiment was summoned on parade by the CO who addressed us as follows:
"As you know the war in Europe is now over, and I suppose most of you are looking forward to seeing your loved ones again after years spent overseas. I must tell you, however, that there is an SS Cavalry Division in Austria at the moment who refuse to cease fighting and our regiment has been given the honour of going up there and persuading them that it would be a good idea on their part to surrender to us."

The question, dear fellow veterans, is this:

Did you ever really know what was going on around you or did you, just like me, follow orders, keep your head down and hope for the best ?.

Look after yourselves and keep taking the tablets

Ron

[51highland]

Nice question Ron. I can only relate what my father told me. He was much the same as you. He recalled only being told / explained to about his part in the attack at Alamein, the attack on Schijndel Holland where all ranks were instructed with the aid of the sand table, and in Germany when he was a Discipline officer at Westertimke camp, guarding a 1000 SS and 2000 Whermacht.
He always said that war was mostly fought on a intimate level, i.e. your section, platoon, or company, with you and your closest mates being the only relevant things. Hardly ever knowing what other companies were upto or facing.
A case in point is me witnessing an argument between some Cameron vets. Attacking the brickworks at Im Lohr, 1 vet said there was very little fighting. my father and 3 others nearly tore him to bits. They said if he thought that , he could not have been there. Having been there I spoke to a old lady who told me that the wounded, 27 of them, were treated in her front garden, she even came out when she saw the vets blue hackle asking "you Cameron"? Bless her, she was full of tears.

[sapper]

Hi Ron.
You are dead right.... During my time from Normandy, till I left on the German border we were never told anything. bar one instance:
The Goodwood battles.
Our officer had us in a group and told us (In bad grace) what was about to happen and what we were to do. That was interrupted by the sound of an approaching Panzer. Down the road came a Sherman, then a Panther, another Sherman. All three in line It appeared they had captured the Panther and its crew intact.
That was the only time we knew what was on ..Though I expect like you, we soon became very conversant with what was going on.
Best Regards Ron.
Not many of us handsome young fellows left
Sapper

[Gerry Chester]

Hi Ron,

Churchill units in the Mediterranean Theatre with the role as Infantry Support its was the norm that tank crews be "put in the picture" to quote one of our Squadron Leaders. So much so, the NIH operated on what we called the "Dawnay Doctrine" - summarised as follows.



Lieutenant Colonel (later Major-General Sir) David Dawnay was, without doubt, the most experienced commander of Infantry Tank Units during his illustrious Military Career.

His strategic concepts, founded in the UK and honed to perfection in Tunisia as CO of the North Irish Horse, were well proven in actions in which Churchill tanks took part. The basic rules were clearly spelled out and understood by all ranks.

• 1. Never forget the Regiment's role is to assist ground troops in every way possible.
• 2. Unless circumstances dictated otherwise, not to go into action without first conducting joint field training.
• 3. Explain straightforwardly to Infantry commanders what the Churchills could do or not do in a given situation.
• 4. All ranks, prior to and during training, to establish a rapport with their Infantry counterparts.
• 5. Never leave an Infantry unit hanging out to dry. Should the circumstances be such that 'A' Echelons are unable to reach tanks, then tanks may move back one (or in small groups) at a time and, when replenished return to enable the next tank/s to do the same.
• 6. If, for exigency reasons, the ground troops are be left alone, their commanders must be fully appraised as to the reasons why,

Simply put, tank crews had to know "What the hell was happening" should officer's tanks be put out of action.

All the best, Gerry

PS Thanks Ron for your kind remarks in another posting. As I am so busy getting my site in a form to meet the needs of a publisher I will be meeting soon, although I access the Forum daily, my postings have been few of late.

[Franek]

Ron;
In my months in combat. I cant remember anyone telling me anything. Whenever we went into attack I was told to make sure the CO had communication.

[Trincomalee]

My father was a Japanese POW , but he said that once he heard the Americans were in the war he knew the Allies would win .
He said that the Thai merchant , Boon Pong , agreed to supply the British POW's and to receive payment at the end of the war because he knew that the Allies would win .
That was probably the extent of his "knowing" whilst he was a prisoner .
After the war , he understood why he had been sent , on his own , from Ceylon to Singapore . He believed that so many of the troops in Singapore were Australian and Indian that Churchill needed to get as many British troops as possible into Singapore , before it fell , so that it wouldn't look so bad .
Once he arrived , noone knew anything about him or why he was there . He spent the first 2 weeks with Australian naval men , driving around the city . When they sailed they suggested he go with them since there was noone aware of or interested in his presence .
I sometimes wonder what it must have been like in those last days , to have no connection to any group , whilst everything fell apart .

[NickFenton]

Guys,

My Father was told not to worry about the war because he was told that he was not expected to last beyond his first 6 missions. Different lines, different theatres, l am sure, but they got on with it anyway.

Regards,

Nick