Am I bovvered?

[Ron Goldstein]

A few years ago I posted a story on the BBC WW2 Peoples War (as it was then known). For those of you who are not familiar with the site, it is now a sealed archive and the stories can no longer be edited or comments added


The original story; BBC - WW2 People's War - Diary Entries 11th April 1945
described a period lasting about two weeks prior to what was virtually the last battle in Italy, namely the break-through of the Argenta Gap.


When I first wrote the article, some sixty odd years after the event, I had yet to discover the 4th Queen's Own Hussars Regimental Diaries. So, while the dates in the story were factually correct, i.e. taken from my own personal diary, I had no confirmation as to the geographical features of the area.


My diary, still with me today, said this:

Wednesday 11th. April 1945
Woken at 4 am to go into Lugo area with Recce party. Stood at X roads for a couple of hours. Area lousy with mines. Late breakfast when tanks arrived.


The story on the BBC site, based entirely on my memory of the day, said this:


On April ll th I went with Lt. Walmsley by jeep to Lugo, the fortified town that is surrounded by water and to which access is made by many small bridges. We stopped the jeep on the outside perimeter and looked across one of these bridges at the town that we could see in front of us.
The trouble was that the bridge had obviously been hit by shell fire and was in a bit of a mess. It did, however, look as if we could get across on foot through the rubble.
With its back to us a notice board had been fixed in the centre of the bridge and Walmsley said to me: "Nip over there and see what it says." Without any further thought I did this, and after I had reached the spot and read the notice I called across to Walmsley in what I hoped was not too shaky a voice: "It says 'Achtung Minen!'. I had, in fact, just walked through a Jerry minefield and was now faced with the unpleasant task of trying to remember exactly where I had placed my feet on the journey in. The fact that 58 years later I am able to write about the incident means, of course, that at the time I must have been blessed with either a good memory or good luck.

Now this is my problem and my reason for posting this article.

My memory, on which I relied upon to describe the scene, led me to believe that the bridge was one of many, that Lugo was surrounded by water and that it was necessary to cross the bridge to gain access to the town.

However, when I now use modern maps of the area plus GOOGLE EARTH it soon becomes painfully obvious that Lugo is not surrounded by water and that the bridge to which I refer must have been purely one over the Santerno river and this is confirmed by an excerpt from the Regimental Diaries shown below.

April 11th - 0600 - B Sqn joined North Irish Horse in sweep northwards to area 3345, during which 30 PoW were taken. Own casualties 2 ORs killed and 1 wounded. 1400 - Tac HQ and A Sqn moved to outskirts of LUGO. 1630 - A Sqn 2Tp and 4Tp carried Gurkha Rifles, 1Tp and 3Tp carried RFF Rifles in an advance to the banks of the river SANTERNO. 2Tp and 4Tp went extremely well, unfortunately after 1Tp and 3Tp dropped their Infantry and were turning around they encountered A/Tk mines. Six carriers of 1Tp were damaged and one of 3Tp. No personnel casualties. C Sqn still in reserve.

The question then is this.


Having now done some belated research on my story I realise that my description of Lugo is patently incorrect but, because the BBC site is now sealed, there is no way to edit the story.


Should I be like Kathy Tate on TV and just say "Am I bovvered?" and am I forced to let the story stay for evermore for the future confusion of researchers in years to come ?

Comments please

Ron

[Slipdigit]

I have a strong feeling, Ron, that while your intentions about changing it are good, it will be extremely hard "fight city hall" and get it changed. I would certainly give it a try but I don't think you are going to be even remotely successful contending with the inertia of that large organization.

[von Poop]

That's an odd one...

They still have some administration there I assume, the peoples war homepage still has a 'contact us' page.
I don't know just how sealed the site is but surely they can still respond to special requests, particularly from people who contributed a lot?

As to whether you should actually change it Ron, that's perhaps a different matter. Someone could come along working on comparing historical memory to actuality and find it a good illustration that the two can vary.
(I'm sure anyone really serious who read your erroneous account would already be, or would rapidly become aware that there was an error, so the historical record is probably safe from anyone other than the Dilettante?)

It could be said that the site's intention was to capture the memories of people in 2003-2006, and that inaccuracies and little mistakes are a valid part of those memories, historical accuracy coming second?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Ron Goldstein]

Adam

In the two years during which the site was at its most active I was a site helper and had many a battle with the authorities myself over information that was being placed on the site that was factually incorrect.

Whenever I (and several of my friends) complained we were told that "perceived histories" were of equal value to those that were historically correct and that the way was always open to us to correct any mis-information via the added "comments" .

What the BBC never took into account was the present situation when the archives became sealed.

Ron

ps

I remember having at least one success in correcting mis-information
BBC - WW2 People's War - Victory Celebrations, 8th June 1946

[Gage]

I would try and correct it if you can Ron. Not sure what you can do if it's sealed thou.

[von Poop]

It's a tricky one isn't it, as long as they stayed true to that interpretation of the archive as very much a 'social' memories project then they've perhaps maintained it's integrity as an archive? Warts & all.
The discussion at the bottom of each account could be seen as 'notes' by other researchers & interested parties and very much an addendum to 'the main event' of preserved memories, and there's many other places as far as the BBC is concerned where further note-taking can go on.

It kind of gets to the heart of the subjective & objective views of history, objectively we can find a lot of the clear 'who, what, when, where' type of information elsewhere, but the People's war archive, while also enhancing that side, added hugely to the subjective/emotive/human pool of history. Perhaps the errors of memory really are an integral part of that side of the record?

Does anybody know, was it Lottery funded? It must have a clear 'charter' of it's aims and intentions laid out somewhere?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Ron Goldstein]

Adam

I have just posted this question on the BBC Message Board.
BBC - MESSAGE BOARDS - History - Wars and Conflicts


Hi

As an old time poster and site helper to the BBC WW2 Peoples War Archives I have recently posed a question on another WW2 site that perhaps can be answered here.

The link to my query is here:

www.ww2talk.com/foru...

Many thanks

Ron



I will keep you posted as to their reply

Ron

[Tom Canning]

Originally Posted by Ron Goldstein

Adam

I have just posted this question on the BBC Message Board.
BBC - MESSAGE BOARDS - History - Wars and Conflicts


Hi

As an old time poster and site helper to the BBC WW2 Peoples War Archives I have recently posed a question on another WW2 site that perhaps can be answered here.









The link to my query is here:

www.ww2talk,com

Many thanks

Ron



I will keep you posted as to their reply

Ron

Good grief Ron -
you may have just opened the floodgates of a series of Hollywood epics on how the Italian campaign was won with Tom Cruise acting as the intrepid Ron Goldstein of the 4th Hussars... you might get a royalty now and again !

[von Poop]

Nice idea, if they ever did let you back in Ron you could edit your rank to 'Field Marshal' every time it's mentioned .

[von Poop]

Looks like a helpful response from the BBC chap Ron?
BBC - MESSAGE BOARDS - History - For the attention of any BBC moderators - Conversation