Could Hawaii hve been invaded

[Gotthard Heinrici]

ok

we all know that about the attack on Pearl Harbour, but what sort of troop concentrations were on the Islands in Dec 1941? Was invasion even on the Japanese Agenda? And if so could it have worked. Your opinions and knowledge on this would be most welcome.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Gotthard Heinrici

ok

we all know that about the attack on Pearl Harbour, but what sort of troop concentrations were on the Islands in Dec 1941? Was invasion even on the Japanese Agenda? And if so could it have worked. Your opinions and knowledge on this would be most welcome.

It may have been on the agenda for it's advantageous positioning for Japanese expansion and would have laid open the West coast of the United States and the thought that the US would sue for peace.

Of the 400 US Aircraft, only 60 survived the attack. The base on Oahu Island was not only the home of the United States Pacific Fleet but about 50,000 American troops. At Pearl Harbor was the largest concentration of U.S. forces in the Pacific.

Whether or not the Japanese were going to invade was made irrelevant for the following reasons:

In the short run, the Japanese accomplished their objective however they failed in three areas:


1) The aircraft carriers weren't touched. (Enterprise, Hornet & Yorktown) The Japanese thought Yorktown sunk at Coral Sea. Even though they thought they had a 3 to 1 advantage in carriers their escape altered the Japanese plans.



2) The submarines were not attacked.



3) The repair dockyards and fuel-oil storage tanks were undamaged.

[Gnomey]

I agree with spidge, although the air attacks were successful they were not as successful as they could of been. In my opinion the Japanese could of landed troops in Hawaii whether or not they could of achieved anything is debatable although I suspect not, against 50,000 US troops (majority would of been Green), looking at how the Marines defended Wake Island against overwhealming superiority of the Japanese. The defense of Hawaii would of been similar but with a much greater number of troops on the American's side and a more even weight of forces (probably in favour of the American's). This would of resulted in a costly Japanese victory that would of affected the later land campaigns because of the losses sustained.

[Herroberst]

I'd have to say that the Japanese could have launched follow on waves that would have been effective in further crippling the US Fleet. An invasion would risk retaliation by the US carriers and could have devastated the Japanese success.

[spidge]

[quote]

Originally Posted by spidge

1) The aircraft carriers weren't touched. (Enterprise, Hornet & Yorktown) The Japanese thought Yorktown sunk at Coral Sea. Even though they thought they had a 3 to 1 advantage in carriers their escape altered the Japanese plans.

The above should have read "Enterprise, Saratoga & Lexington", Yorktown and Hornet were in the Atlantic with "Ranger & Wasp".

I was thinking Pearl Harbour & typing post Coral Sea and pre Midway. Apologies guys. Glad I picked it up before someone else!

[spidge]

Some great photos here of Pearl Harbor 1941 and during the attack. This site extends onto the Doolittle raid.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1296093/posts

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Great info guys. I have read the defense of wake Island and seeing what happened there my own view is that it would have been impractical to invade Hawaii, especially given the numbers of troops that were on the island. The Japanese missed a great opportunity on Dec 7th because they didnt cripple the Carriers and the Docks facility on Pearl. It was a mistake they would pay for handsomely

[Kiwiwriter]

The Japanese Navy studied invading Hawaii and decided that they simply did not have the merchant ship capacity to supply an invading and occupation force, as well as the captive population.

However, that view might have changed had they won the Battle of Midway and erased the American Navy from the equation.

[R Leonard]

Originally Posted by Gotthard Heinrici

ok

we all know that about the attack on Pearl Harbour, but what sort of troop concentrations were on the Islands in Dec 1941?

U.S. Army Units, Territory of Hawaii, Hawaiian Department, U.S. Army, 7 Dec 1941

Ft. Shafter Headquarters and Headquarters Company, Hawaiian Department,
Ft. Shafter Hawaiian Air Force, Hickam Field Hawaiian Department (see below)
- Coastal Artillery Command,
- - Ft. DeRussy Harbor Defenses of Honolulu,
- - Ft. Shafter 15th Coast Artillery Regiment (Harbor Defense),
- - Ft. Kamehameha 16th Coast Artillery Regiment (Harbor Defense),
- - Ft. Ruger 53d Coast Artillery Brigade (Antiaircraft),
- - Ft. Shafter 64th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi- mobile),
- - Honolulu 97th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi- mobile),
- - Ft. Kamehameha 98th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi- mobile),
- - Schofield Barracks 251st Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi- mobile),
- Schofield Barracks, Headquarters, 24th Infantry Division
- - 19th Infantry Regiment
- - 21st Infantry Regiment
- - 299th Infantry Regiment, Iolani Barracks,
- - Honolulu Headquarters and Headquarters Battery, Division Artillery
- - - 11th Field Artillery Battalion (155 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 13th Field Artillery Battalion (105 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 52d Field Artillery Battalion (105mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 63d Field Artillery Battalion (105 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - - 3d Engineer Combat Battalion
- - - - 24th Medical Battalion
- - - - 24th Quartermaster Battalion Headquarters and Military Police Company
- - - - 24th Signal Company 24th Reconnaissance Troop 25th Infantry Division,
- Schofield Barracks Headquarters, 25th Infantry Division
- - 27th Infantry Regiment
- - 35th Infantry Regiment
- - 298th Infantry Regiment
- - Headquarters and Headquarters Battery, Division Artillery
- - - 8th Field Artillery Battalion (105 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 64th Field Artillery Battalion (105 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 89th Field Artillery Battalion (105 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - 90th Field Artillery Battalion (155 mm Howitzer) (Tractor Drawn)
- - - - 25th Medical Battalion
- - - - 25th Quartermaster Battalion
- - - - 65th Engineer Combat Battalion
- - - - Headquarters and Military Police Company
- - - - 25th Signal Company
- - - - 25th Reconnaissance Troop 1
- 1st Quartermaster Company (Truck) (Provisional), Ft. Armstrong
- 2d Quartermaster Company (Truck) (Provisional), Ft. Armstrong
- 2d Signal Battalion (Service), Hickam Field
- 9th Signal Company (Service), Ft. Shafter
- 11th Ordnance Company (Medium Maint), Schofield Barracks
- 11th Tank Company, Schofield Barracks
- 32d Quartermaster Company (Separate) (Light Maint), Ft. Armstrong
- 33d Quartermaster Company (Separate) (Light Maint), Schofield Barracks
- 34th Engineer Combat Regiment, Schofield Barracks
- 53d Signal Company (Maintenance), Hickam Field
- 72d Quartermaster Company (Bakery), Schofield Barracks
- "A" Company, 1st Chemical Battalion, Schofield
- "A" Company, 295th Quartermaster Battalion (Port), Ft. Armstrong
- "B" Company, 90th Quartermaster Battalion (Heavy Maint), Ft. Armstrong
- Bakers and Cooks School, Schofield Barracks
- District Engineer Office,
- Honolulu Ferriers and Horsehoers School,
- Schofield Barracks Finance Office,
- Honolulu Hawaiian Chemical Depot,
- Schofield Barracks Hawaiian Military District
- Hawaiian MP Company, Ft. Shafter
- Hawaiian Medical Depot, Ft. Armstrong
- Hawaiian Ordnance Depot. Ft Armstrong;
- - 61st Ordnance Company (Ammunition)
- - 62d Ordnance Company (Medium Maint)
- - 63d Ordnance Company (Medium Maint)
- - 74th Ordnance Company (Depot)
- Hawaiian Veterinary Depot,
- Kauai Military District
- Maui Military District Reception Center,
- Schofield Barracks Station Complement,
- Ft. Armstrong Station Complement,
- Ft. Kamehamha Station Complement,
- Schofield Barracks Station Complement,
- Ft. Shafter, Tripler General Hospital

HQ Hawaiian Air Force, Hickam Field, Territory of Hawaii
- 14th Pursuit Wing, Wheeler Field
- - 15th Pursuit Group (Fighter), Wheeler Field
- - - 45th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter) (P- 36A)
- - - 46th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter) (P- 36A, P- 40
- - - 47th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter) (P- 40B, P- 36A)
- - - 72d Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) (none)
- - 18th Pursuit Group (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
- - - 6th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) (P- 40
- - - 19th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) (P- 40B, P- 40C)
- - - 44th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Bellows Field (P- 40B, P- 40C)
- - - 73d Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) (P- 40
- - - 78th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) (P- 40
- 18th Bombardment Wing, Hickam Field
- - 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), Hickam Field
- - - 4th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- - - 23d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- - - 31st Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- - - 72d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18))
- - 11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), Hickam Field
- - - 26th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- - - 42d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- - - 50th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) (B- 17, B- 18)
- 19th Transport Squadron, Hickam Field (C- 33)
- 58th Bombardment Squadron (Light), Hickam Field (A- 20)
- 86th Observation Squadron, Bellows Field (B- 12, O- 47, O- 49)

Rich

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Thanks for that info R Leonard! Really good breakdown of the US strength