Biggest Dogfight.

[Owen]

Where and when was the biggest dog-fight?
I believe Dieepe 1942 was the largest between the RAF and Luftwaffe.
Was there anything bigger than than on the Eastern Front?

How big were the biggest Luftwaffe attacks on USAAF bomber formations ?
Do they count as "dog-fights" or does that term purely relate to fighter v fighter?

[Kyt]

There are claims that the largest air battle of the war was during the Battle of Kursk (5th July 1943 to be specific). However, trying to pin down exact numbers (and comparative figures for the Pacific e.g. the Marianas Turkey Shoot or Midway) has been difficult so far. I'll continue checking.

In the West, it was probably Dieppe but most figures are given in sorties rather than in actual numbers of aircraft involved in the skies at any given time. Actually, that could be said for all the statistics available.

I'll be back later with some numbers.

[Owen]

So the biggest air-battle was during the biggest tank battle?

[Kyt]

Makes sense I suppose - still looking for stats

[Owen]

Will this site help?
Air Battle over Kursk 1943, Starting Page

[Kyt]

Anybody got a copy of "Duel for the Sky" by Shores?

From a review:

According to the author, the first day of the Battle of Kursk marked the single heaviest day of aircraft losses during the war with the Germans claiming 432 Soviet aircraft shot down and Soviets claiming at least 300 Luftwaffe planes destroyed. Both sides also claimed devastating losses to enemy armor by tank busters.
Shores supports his account of the air battle at Kursk with assorted photos, a map of the front lines, tables of approximate air strength for each side, a table of "Red Air Fleet Order of Battle, July 1943" at Kursk, "Soviet Air Regiments Identified" (with subordinations and commanders, where known), a Luftwaffe OB for July 1943 at Kursk, a sidebar of "The Aces at Kursk" (with photos and scores), and another sidebar entitled "Main Aircraft Types Employed during the Battle for Kursk".

As an aside, a for those interested in the air-war on the Eastern Front, some new books will be coming out over the next year or so:

Stalingrad: The Air Battle

[Owen]

Found this site.
http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

Open the document for claims
Eastern Front Vol 2. Jul to Dec 1943
It is HUGE!

[Kyt]

Originally Posted by Owen D

Found this site.
http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

Open the document for claims
Eastern Front Vol 2. Jul to Dec 1943
It is HUGE!

Yeah, I've just found that site too - not fair - you beat me to it

Originally Posted by Owen D

Will this site help?
Air Battle over Kursk 1943, Starting Page

I can't make sense of what the hell's going on on that site Maybe I should learn some more German

[Owen]

Surprise, surprise. Where did we end up in answer to my query?
The Eastern front , yet again.

To think, once , we couldn't even mention that here.

[Kyt]

I'm having real problems uploading a pdf*, and I'm not sure whether this link will work for everyone (let me know)

https://calldbp.leavenworth.army.mil...CUR_DOCUMENT=2

You'll get a "This operation not allowed" box - click OK - it should then download

The article is entitled " BATTLE FIELD AIR INTERDICTION BY THE LUFTWAFFE AT THE BATTLE OF KURSK - 1943"

*BTW - why is it that I can't upload some pdf files when they're only 2-3 mb? It works for some files, and not for others