Picture of 14 OTU personnel.

[David Layne]

I have posted this on another forum but want to post it here too.

This picture taken on 21-2-41 at snowy Cottesmore is of 14 OTU personnel in course No. 24 from 14-2-41 to 20-6-41.

Back row left to right:- Pullen, Layne, Jackson, Matthews, Smith, Wrigley, Mossop, Voysey, Thomson, Welford.

Third row left to right:- Dundas, Britt, Barley, Lord, Nicholl, Bradley, Mitchell, Norris, Matthews.

Second row left to right:- Ringwood, Bartlett, Tate, Grahame, Brister, King, Peace, Bousfield, Busley, Murray.

Front row left to right:- Scott, Watt, Walters, White, Meddon, Morris.

One can only wonder what became of these young men.
My father (Layne) completed a tour with 50 Squadron and a tour with 97 Squadron and survived the war.
Welford went to 50 Squadron and survived the war, I have no information on any of the others.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by David Layne

I have posted this on another forum but want to post it here too.

This picture taken on 21-2-41 at snowy Cottesmore is of 14 OTU personnel in course No. 24 from 14-2-41 to 20-6-41.

Back row left to right:- Pullen, Layne, Jackson, Matthews, Smith, Wrigley, Mossop, Voysey, Thomson, Welford.

Third row left to right:- Dundas, Britt, Barley, Lord, Nicholl, Bradley, Mitchell, Norris, Matthews.

Second row left to right:- Ringwood, Bartlett, Tate, Grahame, Brister, King, Peace, Bousfield, Busley, Murray.

Front row left to right:- Scott, Watt, Walters, White, Meddon, Morris.

One can only wonder what became of these young men.
My father (Layne) completed a tour with 50 Squadron and a tour with 97 Squadron and survived the war.
Welford went to 50 Squadron and survived the war, I have no information on any of the others.

While doing the RAAF "Postings at death" through the Australian War Memorial, I have been cataloguing links to particular graduating groups which have all been researched and give you an answer to the fate of all these young men.

AWM Collection Record: P03995.001 - Group portrait of 29 RAAF servicemen who attended No. 4 Course Service Flying Training School (SFTS) in Saskatchewan, Canada. Identified left to right, back row: 414495 Patrick Noel Kingston of ...

[spidge]

Originally Posted by David Layne

One can only wonder what became of these young men.
My father (Layne) completed a tour with 50 Squadron and a tour with 97 Squadron and survived the war.
Welford went to 50 Squadron and survived the war, I have no information on any of the others.

You would imagine the percentages of death to be quite high. I just went through my spreadsheet and came up with the following info of Aussies for 50 & 97squadrons.

75 RAAF deaths in 50 squadron
53 RAAF deaths in 97 squadron

Another 15 deaths were designated as 14 OTU RAF.

[David Layne]

Spidge, when the Australian aircrews came over how much training had they received? Would the picture I have posted contain Australians, Canadians, South Africans etc? In my ignorance I had presumed they all came from the home countries.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by David Layne

Spidge, when the Australian aircrews came over how much training had they received? Would the picture I have posted contain Australians, Canadians, South Africans etc? In my ignorance I had presumed they all came from the home countries.

Hi David,

I will have a look at cross referencing the names in the list with those of the RAAF deaths in 50 & 97 squadrons and the 15 (14 OTU) and see if we come up with a match.

Australians would do some training in Australia then predominantly to Canada through the EATS programme.(Empire Air Training Scheme)

Training of EATS recruits took place in Australia, Canada, Rhodesia and Britain. By war's end, almost 40,000 Australians had been sent overseas under this scheme, serving in Europe, the Middle East, Burma and other places. Many men in Australia and overseas died in training accidents. Many who graduated from courses flew with Bomber Command, which had the highest operational loss rate of any British Commonwealth force in the war. The RAAF also sent ground crews to serve in most of its Article XV squadrons (as well as 3 and 10 Squadrons), most serving up to four years overseas. Hundreds of RAAF members became prisoners of war in Germany and Italy, as well as a smaller number in the Far East. Australian born aircrew after completing flying training in Australia had accepted Short Service Commissions with the RAF and were serving when War broke out. These men saw action during the German invasion of France and during the Battle of Britain. The calibre of these men is exemplified by the deeds of Flying Officer L.R. Clisby DFC, who is credited with 17 and one half victories in France and Flight Lieutenant P.C. Hughes DFC, the top Australian ‘ace’ of the Battle of Britain with 14 individual and 4 shared victories. Other Australians who served with distinction as members of the RAF were Air Commodore ‘Hughie’ Edwards VC and Air Vice Marshal D. Bennett, the founder of the famous Bomber Command ‘Pathfinder’ Force
Under Article XV of the Agreement, provision was made for the Dominions to retain their own identity. This would manifest itself in the gathering of nationals in Dominion squadrons with equipment and facilities being supplied by the RAF. Australian squadrons in the RAF were numbered from No. 450 to No. 467. (No. 465 was not allocated). Of these seven operated fighters in the Far East, Middle East and Fighter Command, five were associated with Bomber Command, two in Coastal Command and the remaining three served in the Middle East. Yet, while these 17 squadrons were designated as Australian squadrons, the reality was that Australians who were trained under the EATS actually served in more than 200 RAF squadrons.

RAAF Aerospace Centre http://www.defence.gov.au/aerospacecentre/default.htm

[spidge]

Originally Posted by David Layne

Spidge, when the Australian aircrews came over how much training had they received? Would the picture I have posted contain Australians, Canadians, South Africans etc? In my ignorance I had presumed they all came from the home countries.

There are some surnames the same however it would be difficult to say without the Christian names to cross reference.

[Harry Ree]

The first Flight Engineer training was located at RAF St Athan, the first course starting on 30 May 1942.Initially manpower came from technical ground trades remustering but later Flight Engineers were recruited from direct entry to the RAF.

The courses were of 24 weeks length but such was the volume of training imposed on training resources that later, the first 10 weeks training was conducted at RAF Locking, the rest at St Athan.A 3 week gunnery course was included in the package.

In late 1944, the RCAF decided to train their own Flight Engineers and for the final stages of the European war,RCAF Flight Engineers came to Bomber Command with their technical training completed.They then went through "finishing school units" before they joined operational squadrons.

St Athan continued to train Bomber Command Flight Engineers until the end of the piston era in the early 1950s.Post war,the Flight Engineer's course was of 12 weeks duration.Graduates then completed their training at an OCU before being posted to a Bomber Command squadron.

[morse1001]

interesting photograph

[KriegsmarineFreak]

As you look at old WW2 photos you can't help but wonder what became of the people in the photo. It's especially revering to find that some of the people you see in these photos most likely didn't survive the war.