RAF casualties in Lincolnshire - anyone know them?

[DaveBrigg]

Thanks for the effort Spidge; I appreciate how time consuming it is to search that many entries, and then still not have a definitive answer. Made some progress today. We went to see our Home Guard contact again, and after the first visit he had dug out his copy of the Finn book mentioned by Harry and David. He confirmed that the crash location was the farm mentioned on page 22, and the description of one crewman surviving the crash but dying of wounds before daylight matches with what he said. The son of the farmer who ignored the shouts still lives in the village, so it's something only spoken of in whispers.
I didn't get a chance to look at the Finn book in detail, but from the 'lost Bombers' website I found the most likely Hampden crash:

Serial Number

AD723

Squadron

61

X1D

QR-?

Operation

Cologne

Date 1

1st March 1941

Date 2

2nd March 1941

Airborne 2001 1Mar41 from Hemswell. Crashed in bad weather, 0500 2Mar41 near Caistor, 11 miles SW of Grimsby, Lincolnshire. Sgt K.G.Cooper KIA Sgt W.Windle KIA Sgt M.Gough KIA Sgt G.Hall KIA "
The only thing I'm not sure about was another page in Finn which mentions fire being seen in the sky before the crash, which would suggest enemy action, although this could have been another incident.
Still no luck on the Airspeed Oxford...

[Harry Ree]

I think that the problem is that at times the Staion ORBs and Squadron ORBs gave infomation which can be regarded as scant.The point is that there was a war going on at the time and adjutants had little time to write up the detail and completely validate it.For instance the name of the crash site may be given but this might be the parish or an airfield situated within that parish.In many cases some airfields were named, not after the parish that the airfield was situated in but an adjacent area.

Those involved at the time, if there were survivors, can usually add some definite detail of crashes and official detail such as photographs at the time can be used to identify the crash area.Bystander knowledge can be crucial in identifing the aircraft and date of the incident and given good memory along with the information given by a ORB,it is possible to reveal the aircraft, its crash site and its loss circumstances.

However I think I may have identified the two aircraft if we ignore the crash dates given. These crashes were of the era quoted.

In the meanwhile I will look at the 61 Squadron statistic and repost with my thoughts.

[Peter Clare]

Originally Posted by DaveBrigg

Hi

1. On 30th October 1942 an Airspeed Oxford crashed into the rectory of South Kelsey, killing the three crew. The vicar and his wife survived. The crew may have been Welsh. They could have been flying from Kirton Lindsey, and were heading north when the plane went down. The crew are not buried in the village. Can anyone tell us their names?

Dave,

Are you sure about the date for this loss, as far as I am aware, no Oxfords were lost on this date.

[DaveBrigg]

Originally Posted by Peter Clare

Dave,

Are you sure about the date for this loss, as far as I am aware, no Oxfords were lost on this date.

The only evidence I have for this is our Home Guard informant, who seemed quite certain. However, he said it was a Saturday morning, and a quick check shows that the 30th was a Friday. I struggle to fill in a CV, so I know how easy it is to get dates wrong when working from memory. Thanks for the help.

[Harry Ree]

I think the Oxford lost could be the one lost on 5 June 1942 in the North Kelsey area.Sid Finn records it crash site as "nr Howsham" which is a hamlet just about two miles north of North Kelsey,South Kelsey being about 3 miles south of North Kelsey.

The aircraft was Oxford serial number P 6804 belonging to No 12 FTS of RAF Spitalgate, (east of Grantham) which had a satellite airfield at Harlaxton, (west of Grantham).From April 1942, No12 FST had been redesignated as No 12 (Pilots) AFU, but the loss of the aircraft's parent unit was recorded as No 12 FTS.

Crash detail depends on the bystander information regarding the loss of the aircraft overnight and the lack of immediate help.However,the information on these crashes was tightly held by the authorities and the only people who could usually verify the crew details,survivors and dead were those involved in an official capacity.It was difficult for any civilian to venture near to a crashed aircraft.Transportation of the deceased and attendance of the representatives of the parent unit was an informal source of service information from those involved.As normal RAF proceedures, any crash site was immediately cordoned off as soon as possible and secured by guards.

I feel that the aircraft which crashed between North Kelsey and the River Ancholme was a Wellington which Sid Finn records crashing at Hibaldstow on 16 January 1942.The report does not conclude that the site was in the village or on the Hibaldstow airfield.However it fits into the report of the crash site being between the River Ancholme and North Kelsey in that the River Ancholme at this point formed virtually the eastern boundary of the Hibaldstow airfield.

W R Chorley records that this aircraft was a No 301 Polish Squadron Wellington IV Z1265 based at Hemswell which was up at 1748 on 15 January 1942 for a raid on Hamburg and crashed at 2340 (still the 15 January) at Hibaldstow (on return it would appear).The crash was attributed to the Pilot ,P/O Liszka being taken ill through lack of oxygen.None of the crew died but three were injuried.

I have looked at the Handley Page Hampden and Hereford Crash Log and cnnot find any crash in the area quoted which would point to the area being the scene of Hampden crashes during the dates quoted.

[Peter Clare]

Dave,

Could the year be wrong?

An Airspeed Oxford of 15 PAFU (Pilots Advanced Flying Unit), serial BG665 hit a house low flying on Sunday 31 October 1943 at South Kelsey.

[DaveBrigg]

Peter, this must be the right aircraft. What are the chances of two identical incidents exactly a year apart? I wasn't aware of the crash at Howsham, but this hamlet is smaller than South Kelsey and 5 miles away, so not an obvious point of reference. Children from Howsham attend my son's school, so he will include this incident in the project.

However, if our Home Guard friend got the year wrong, he may be correct about the date. A search for the 31st October 1943 shows 10 RAF casualties, only one of whom is buried in the UK - Aircraftman 2nd Class Vernon Cocker. This day was also a Sunday. The 30th was a Saturday, which matches the story we were told, and shows 6 RAF casualties buried in the UK. Two are aircraftmen, who I'm guessing did not normally fly, and one is a Flight Sergeant from 62 Squadron (based in the Far East at the time). The other three were:
Sergeant F E Carr
Flying Officer (Pilot) K J Nixon
Sergeant (Nav) S A Benito
Benito is buried in Merthyr Tydfil, which partially fits with the comment that 'they were Welsh'
The year must be correct, and I'm inclined to believe that the 30th was the correct date. Our friend matched the correct day of the week, and at the weekend would have been at home, which was less than a hundred yards from the crash site. He helped to recover the bodies, presumably before staff from the nearest RAF base arrived.
However, I'm wary taking for granted things which seem to fit so neatly. The Oxford could have a crew of three, but what if there was just a pilot and navigator that day? What if a member of the ground crew was taken up for the ride? I have found little online about 15 PAFU, except that it was based at Greenham Common until September 1943.
Later this year it will be the 65th anniversary of the crash, and it would be nice to commemorate the men who died in the village. There is a lot of interest in local history, so I'm sure this story deserves a wider audience. I'm new to this area of research, and would value opinions as to how conclusive the evidence is, and whether there is any way of confirming the names beyond reasonable doubt.
Thanks again for everyone's input. It has made me realise that in a few years time there will be no-one in this area who remembers the war, and without these eyewitness accounts some of the details will be lost forever.

[DaveBrigg]

Harry, thanks for the extra information. Until I started looking at this story I hadn't realised just how many airfields there were in this area, and how many wartime crashes. They seem to be literally every couple of miles north at least as far as the Humber.
The details about the bomber crash are less precise than the Oxford. It was near the East bank of the Ancholme, at night, and 'early' in the war. At least one member of the crew survived the crash and his cries for help were heard, but not responded to, and he died. Some or all of the crew suffered burns. It may have been a 'Bristol' aircraft. Our contact visited the wreckage, and remembers tha scandal attached to the farmer who did not respond to the cries.
Hibaldstow airfield is very near though (it is a parachute centre now, and the aircraft often pass over our house), so why the crash was not spotted from the airfield I do not know. Finn has a photo of a part of a Hampden from a crash near North Kelsey (I have just ordered a copy, so cannot be more precise at the moment). It is possible that the witness may be combining memories from more than one crash. He seems quite certain about the location though, so a site visit may help to confirm the details. Thanks for the new leads
Dave

[Harry Ree]

I am just wondering if the "Bristol" aircraft incident reported occurred before the war and was a Hemswell based aircraft. There were a number of prewar crashes from Hemswell causing aircrew deaths which are not covered by CWGC remembrance and official wargrave.I would think that the aircraft incidents were due to the squadrons converting to new aircraft over a short period of time.

The first resident squadrons at Hemswell from when it opened in January 1937 were :

No 61 Squadron who had the Bristol Blenheim 1 on strength from January 1938 until March 1939 and were converting to the Hampden from February 1939. (The Blenheim I was the third different type of aircraft for the squadron from when it reformed at Hemswell on 8 March 1937)

No 144 Squadron who had the Bristol Blenheim 1 on strength from August 1937 until April 1939 and were converting to the Hampden in March 1939. (The Blenheim I aircraft was the fourth different type of aircraft for the squadron from when it reformed at Bicester on 11 January 1937, relocating to Hemswell on 9 February 1937)

I think I can trace some of these incidents which are not included in publications covering wartime losses but should give a date of the associated incident.

Will post later

[Peter Clare]

Originally Posted by DaveBrigg

The other three were:
Sergeant F E Carr
Flying Officer (Pilot) K J Nixon
Sergeant (Nav) S A Benito
Benito is buried in Merthyr Tydfil, which partially fits with the comment that 'they were Welsh'

Dave,

Could not find a loss for Sgt. S A. Benito. Could only come up with the surname 'Solari' that could match. It's looking very much as though the crew of the Oxford were Carr, Nixon and Solari, but I'd rather find more proof before I finally make my mind up. Hope to get back with more info soon.

Regards
Peter

SurnameRankService NumberDate Of DeathAgeRegiment/ServiceNationalityGrave/Memorial Ref.Cemetery/Memorial Name1 SOLARI, ANGELO BENITO Sergeant141609730/10/1943 20Royal Air Force Volunteer ReserveUnited KingdomRow F.4. Grave 47.MERTHYR TYDFIL (PANT) CEMETERYPage 1