RAF casualties in Lincolnshire - anyone know them?

[DaveBrigg]

Originally Posted by Peter Clare

An Airspeed Oxford of 15 PAFU (Pilots Advanced Flying Unit), serial BG665 hit a house low flying on Sunday 31 October 1943 at South Kelsey.

I found out this about Caistor, which is about seven miles from South Kelsey
'by early 1942 the airfield was placed in the hands of 15 (P) Advanced Flying Unit, which was then using the newly-built airfield at Kirmington'
Caistor closed and then reopened in April 1943, but if 15 PAFU remained based at Kirmington everything seems to fit.

Benito Solari is the man I came up with - sorry, must have got the names in the wrong order!

[Peter Clare]

Originally Posted by Peter Clare

Could not find a loss for Sgt. S A. Benito. Could only come up with the surname 'Solari' that could match. It's looking very much as though the crew of the Oxford were Carr, Nixon and Solari, but I'd rather find more proof before I finally make my mind up. Hope to get back with more info soon.

Dave,

A contact, DaveW, has come up with the following info on Nixon and Solari........

"Nixon and Solari were found dead on 6 November 1943 following the crash of Beaufighter LZ455, 2 OAPU, at Beinn Bhreac, Mull of Kintyre on 30 October".

The Beaufighter was on a ferry flight.

Seems this rules them out of being the Oxford crew members..

[DaveBrigg]

Hmm, not quite back to the drawing board, but I'm not sure where to go now. Am I right in assuming that the MOD records for any possible casualty are only accessible by direct family at the moment? I'll try a letter to the current owners of the house (which was repaired after the crash) to see if they know any more.
Thanks again for all the help given.
Dave

[Canberra Man]

Another good book is "Lincolnshire Airfields in the Second World War" by Patrick Otter. There are no numbers as such, but reading about the operations and the intensity of them you can draw your own conclusion about the losses.

Ken

[Canberra Man]

Hi.
I'm back again. It was mentioned about the density of the airfields in Lincolnshire, I know how close they were, I used to cycle to most of them. Some of them where so close, their circuits overlapped with expcted consequenses.

Ken

[Harry Ree]

Originally Posted by Harry Ree

I am just wondering if the "Bristol" aircraft incident reported occurred before the war and was a Hemswell based aircraft. There were a number of prewar crashes from Hemswell causing aircrew deaths which are not covered by CWGC remembrance and official wargrave.I would think that the aircraft incidents were due to the squadrons converting to new aircraft over a short period of time.

The first resident squadrons at Hemswell from when it opened in January 1937 were :

No 61 Squadron who had the Bristol Blenheim 1 on strength from January 1938 until March 1939 and were converting to the Hampden from February 1939. (The Blenheim I was the third different type of aircraft for the squadron from when it reformed at Hemswell on 8 March 1937)

No 144 Squadron who had the Bristol Blenheim 1 on strength from August 1937 until April 1939 and were converting to the Hampden in March 1939. (The Blenheim I aircraft was the fourth different type of aircraft for the squadron from when it reformed at Bicester on 11 January 1937, relocating to Hemswell on 9 February 1937)

I think I can trace some of these incidents which are not included in publications covering wartime losses but should give a date of the associated incident.

Will post later

Having looked at the prewar losses at Hemswell as reflected by the burials at Harpswell, there was a Blenheim incident on 10 May 1938 which was local to Hemswell when Blenheims of No 144 Squadron took off in formation and one was lost when it immediately fell out of formation and flew into the ground.There are two burials at Harpswell related to the incident but the pilot was named Robertson, who one of his flying colleagues recalled, that the week previously they had been together to watch the Calcutta Cup.

There was also a flying incident on 21 April 1939 which would be a Hampden and is related to a burial at Harpwell.There is also another No 144 Squadron Hampden loss, which is reflected by three Harpwell burials which occurred on 2 June 1939.This crashed at Caenby village, the report states Caenby Corner but the actual crash was about two miles away.

Regarding tracing the Oxford aircraft incident reported at South Kelsey on 31 October 1943. The account would have been be in the county newspaper,The Lincolnshire Echo or the Scunthorpe and Grimsby Telegraph or any appropriate Brigg weekly.The other reporting channel.would be the Lincolnshire Chief Constable report.

Dave. One man who might be helpful is Robin Fletcher who is reported to be an Aviation Historian for Lincolnshire and his name has been associated with aviation research in the past in private publications.

I will send you his address by pm but I have been unable to ascertain his telephone number.

Regarding No 15 (P) AFU locations.The unit was formed at Leconfield (Beverley)on 1 March 1942 and used the satellites at Acaster Malbis (York) and Kirmington.At both Leconfield and Kirmington their tenure was short term in that both stations were in the process of being handled over to Bomber Command operational squadrons and No 15 (P) AFU had to vacate the airfields when the BC Units moved in.The unit and their Oxfords then moved to Andover on 15 December 1942 and from this it would suggest that the South Kelsey incident in October 1943 invoved an aircraft not from a regional airfield but from No15 (P) AFU based at Andover.

Regards

Harry

[Canberra Man]

The losses were caused by two factors. There were no conversion units in those far off days and the poor layout of the secondary controls. The new pilot would be shown the taps and he was on his own!
The pitch change controls were two push/pull plungers behind the pilot's left elbow, just below two identical plungers for the carburettor cut outs-the latter were soon guarded by a sprung flap! Like the throttles they were painted red and green for port or starboard engine, but that wasn't much use at night unless the pilot had colour sensitive elbows! The hydraulic system was controlled by three identical push/pull stirrup plungers down by the pilots right thigh-and the circuit had first to be energised from 'Neutral' by selecting either 'Undercarriage and Flaps' or
'Turret' followed by pushing or pulling the flaps or undercarriage selector up or down as needed. It was all too easy to retract the undercarriage rather than the flaps after landing, especially at night. Pilots had to remember to first activate the control to provide pressure in the correct circuit before raising or lowering the wheels or flaps, or providing hydraulic power to the turret. If he didn't do this, nothing happened, imagine, Me 109 attacking and no turret!
The fuel cocks were on the right hand wall of the cockpit 'behind' the pilots right shoulder and difficult to reach from his seat,(as were the winders for the cowl cooling gills) The fuel gauges were mounted in the roof behind his head!
All this on top of the dangers of flying a new type in the last year before the war. There were no OTUs and its no wonder that the RAF lost over 10% of its Blenheim strength in that year alone.
They even had the idiotic idea of bolting a four gun pack under the Blenheim and making a night fighter out of it, HELLO!, it could only reach 230 mph!!!!

Ken

[Peter Clare]

Originally Posted by Harry Ree

Having looked at the prewar losses at Hemswell as reflected by the burials at Harpswell, there was a Blenheim incident on 10 May 1938 which was local to Hemswell when Blenheims of No 144 Squadron took off in formation and one was lost when it immediately fell out of formation and flew into the ground.There are two burials at Harpswell related to the incident but the pilot was named Robertson, who one of his flying colleagues recalled, that the week previously they had been together to watch the Calcutta Cup.

According to 'The Bristol Blenheim' - Graham Warner, the loss of Blenheim's on 10 May 1938 in the Hemswell area involved Blenheim Mk.I K7080 of 144 Squadron, the engine cut on take-off at Wyton and control was lost, the aircraft crashed 1 mile from Hemswell; P/O. R. Maxwell and Cpl. D. Wissett killed.

Blenheim Mk.I K7037 of 144 Squadron; engine cut on take-off at Wyton and control was lost; P/O. D. Perry, AC1. J. Rice and AC1 F. Crimes killed.

[DaveBrigg]

Peter, Canberra, Harry, thanks for the extra info. It has been surprising to learn just how many aircraft crashed within these few square miles, since the list which is growing on this thread does not include several Lancasters that didn't quite make it back, as well as more that were lost on take-off or landing (Kirmington, now Humberside International Airport' still has a dip in the runway from when a Lancaster with a full bomb load crashed and caught fire after its tyre burst). It is also a surprise to know that there isn't an accurate record of where they fell. If the 'official' records could be a couple of miles out, and the number of witnesses is declining, many of these locations will soon be lost forever.
The info on 15 (P) AFU ties together other sources, but doesn't explain why someone would fly nearly 200 miles across England to practice low level flying. Was it training for Mosquito pilots before their precision daylight raids? The Airspeed Oxford was the aircraft being flown by Amy Johnson when she disappeared over the Thames Estuary, so this isn't the only loss which has caused confusion.