Request: Raaf Airports In New Guinea 1944

[Blackblue]

Max,
It seems that the orders to remove the Vengeance squadrons in March 44 came from General Kenney. Despite good results in the close support role he believed the aircraft were obsolete and better aircraft could be employed more productively in forward areas where airfield space was at a premium. It seems Kenney did not want them....and the Aussies shipped them home and decided to replace them with something that could be used....the Liberator. I don't think it was because of availability of Liberators....they were probably already on the way and the Vengeance no longer had a role as a front line aircraft. I would have thought they would be ideal for close support in PNG with air superiority as it was by this time.

84 Squadron was at Horn Island in early 44 with Kittyhawks, so they were pretty well out of the action anyway. 86 Squadron were in Merauke and where there was also very little air activity. In January 44 they shot down a number of Japanese recce aircraft and the Japs stopped these flights after this. The book 'Torres Straight Force' by Reg Ball suggests there was little for them to do and as a consequence they were withdrawn to Townsville. I would surmise that these two squadrons were the least active of the fighter units in the area...so they were the ones selected for Mustang conversion.

Rgds

Tim

[maxs75]

(Blackblue @ Feb 10 2006, 08:47 AM) [post=45550].... in forward areas where airfield space was at a premium. It seems Kenney did not want them....

I don't think it was because of availability of Liberators....
[/b]

Did Kenney know how much space was required by a Liberator vs a Vengeance?
I know that RAAF was allocated about 150 SB2C/A-25 Helldivers, but AFAIK in this case was the RAAF that didn't like them.

Looking at the web site of ADF serials, it seems that only 9 B-24D ex USAAF were delivered before march 1944. Many other came only in the second half of 1944. This is why I asked if the operational delay was due to the unavailability of B-24s.

(Blackblue @ Feb 10 2006, 08:47 AM) [post=45550]84 Squadron was at Horn Island in early 44 with Kittyhawks, so they were pretty well out of the action anyway. 86 Squadron were in Merauke and where there was also very little air activity. In January 44 they shot down a number of Japanese recce aircraft and the Japs stopped these flights after this. The book 'Torres Straight Force' by Reg Ball suggests there was little for them to do and as a consequence they were withdrawn to Townsville. I would surmise that these two squadrons were the least active of the fighter units in the area...so they were the ones selected for Mustang conversion.

Rgds

Tim
[/b]

Could you tell me the deployments of sqns 84,86 before may 1944?
And also the bases from which operated no. 85 squadron? AFAIK it operated Spitfires from late 1944 but was kept near Perth. Why not swap it with a frontline Kittyhawk squadron. Usually the best plane were in forward ares, while the other in less threatened areas.

Thank you Tim for all your answers.

Max

[Blackblue]

Libs had just a little more range mate and no need to use them from FOBs! I'm if they were already on the way or not....but they were replaced because of Kenney's perception of their combat performance. Perhaps you can find moe in the official history. The index gives information on squadrons and aircraft.

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/chapter.asp?volume=27

84 Squadron
Richmond: Feb - April 43
Horn Island: April 43 - May 44
Aitkenvale: May - June 44
Macrossan: June - November 44
Ross River: November 44 - January 46

85 Squadron
Guildford: Feb 43 - May 45
Pearce: May - December 45
Began conversions to Spit MkVs in Sep 44.

86 Squadron
Gawler: March - May 43
Ross River: May - July 43
Merauke: July 43 - May 44
Bohle River: May - JUne 44
Macrossan: June 44 - January 45
Bohle River: January - December 45

Unsure about the Spits mate. The Kittyhawks were by this time proven and potent close support aircraft, and generally more than held their own against the remaining Jap airpower. If it ain't broken dont fix it I suppose?

Rgds

Tim

[maxs75]

Thanks Tim,
interesting info and interesting link!

Max

[maxs75]

Originally Posted by Blackblue

85 Squadron
Guildford: Feb 43 - May 45
Pearce: May - December 45
Began conversions to Spit MkVs in Sep 44.

Tim,
I didn't noticed that no. 85 sqn. received Spitfires MkV. Possibly they were released by the "frontline" Spit. sqns that received the Mk VIII during 1944.
This sounds like an answer why not to swap with a Kittyhawks. It could be possible that those MkVs had tired engines because of earlier war service, while the continuous supply of new P-40Ns from US granted new planes to the frontilne sqns.

Max

[Blackblue]

I specifically recorded that as I too thought this was a little strange this late in the war. Then again I think I would rather be flying a Spitfire V than a Boomerang!


Found the following on the net:
In 1942, the RAAF allocated the serial A58 to an aircraft which, rather surprisingly, was called the Capstan. This well-known cigarette name was selected as a security measure to cover the Australian debut of the most famous fighter of World War II - the Vickers Supermarine Spitfire. The prototype Spitfire first flew on March 5 1936 and, by 1940, sufficient numbers had been produced to turn the tide in the Battle of Britain. This remarkable fighter, of which 20,351 were built in 40 major variants, fought on every front with practically every Allied Air Force. In the UK, RAF serialled Spitfires were flown by the RAAF's Nos 451, 452, 453 and 457 Sqns.
The 656 Spitfires delivered to the RAAF between August 1942 and June 1945 included 245 Mk Vcs (A58-1/185 and A58-200/259), 251 Mk VIIIs (A58-300/550) and 159 HF Mk VIIIs (A58-600/758) plus a Mk Vc, EE-731, which did not receive an A58 number. These fighters operated in Australia with Nos 79, 85 Sqns and the redeployed Nos 452, 457 Sqns, together with Spitfires from RAF Nos 54, 548 and 549 Sqns. The Spitfires, in association with Kittyhawks, formed the RAAF's main defensive and offensive fighter force until 1945, when both fighter types were superseded by the CAC Mustang. Spitfire disposal action occurred between 1946/1952.

The first Spitfire Vc aircraft were delivered in August 1942. A total of 244 Spitfire F.Vc and 1 Spitfire F.Vb were eventually delivered to the RAAF. The Spitfire Vc remained in service with five Fighter Squadrons in the South West Pacific and Northern Australian areas until replaced by the Spitfire VIII in April 1944. These units were 452, 457, 79 and 85 (RAAF) Squadrons plus 54 (RAF) Squadron. Planned available strength was 16 aircraft per Squadron.

Although the Spitfire was undoubtedly a better performer in the air than the more numerous Kittyhawks in service with the RAAF, it was not completely suited to the tropical conditions and rough airfields in this theatre.

The RAAF received 410 Spitfire VIII aircraft, although 120 of the later deliveries were immediately stored and destined never to see service. The Spitfire Mk VIII replaced the Spitfire Mk Vc in four of the Australian Spitfire Squadrons. 85 Squadron soldiered on with their old Spitfire Vs until the end of the war. The Mk VIII was used until the cessation of hostilities in September 1945.

Rgds

Tim

[maxs75]

Bingo!
so no. 85 had only old MkV.

From that link
http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/chapter.asp?volume=27
yesterday I read that no. 77 sqn. provided "full strength of 24 Kittyhawks" for an operation in mid. 1943.

The page you reported yesterday says "Planned available strength was 16 aircraft per Squadron." for Spit. sqns.

Do You know how many a/c were planned strength? Different from type to type (i.e. US type vs UK type?)?


Max

[jimbotosome]

The Beauforts remind me of B-25s which were perfect medium bombers, well balanced and fast. What roles were the Beauforts used for in the Pacific and where? BTW: Are they pronounced "bu-forts" or "bo-forts"?

[maxs75]

The Beauforts were used sometimes in the same missions toghether with B-25, but AFAIK more often they were used for antishipping patrols, especially in late war.
The Beauforts started service in Australia with no. 100 squadron, formed at the begininning of 1942, and in combat from mid 1942.
Sqns nos. 1,2,6,7,8,13,14,15,32,100 used Beauforts, mainly as a PBO substitute, but no 13 got PV in 1943 and no. 2 got B-25 in 1944.

jimbotosome, I'll not answer to your second question, english is not my first language, probably You can answer better than me!

Max

[spidge]

Originally Posted by maxs75

The Beauforts were used sometimes in the same missions toghether with B-25, but AFAIK more often they were used for antishipping patrols, especially in late war.
The Beauforts started service in Australia with no. 100 squadron, formed at the begininning of 1942, and in combat from mid 1942.
Sqns nos. 1,2,6,7,8,13,14,15,32,100 used Beauforts, mainly as a PBO substitute, but no 13 got PV in 1943 and no. 2 got B-25 in 1944.

jimbotosome, I'll not answer to your second question, english is not my first language, probably You can answer better than me!

Max

Bo!