Myths about the Polish AF...Didyou know?

spidge · 27-04-2006, 02:26 PM

Myth: The Polish Air Force was wiped out of existence during German invasion, and took no further part in WW II.

No way. While it indeed succumbed to German advantage in 1939, a large proportion of both ground personnel and aircrew were evacuated and interned in Romania and Hungary. With the help of Polish embassies and consulates, which provided false papers and bribe money, most of them were able to make their escape through the Mediterranean to France and England in time to take part in the defence of France and in the Battle of Britain.
The Polish Air Force in Great Britain, though organizationally and operationally within the RAF structure, was an independent air force, and many decisions (like sending Polish pilots away from the European theatre) had to be agreed on with the Polish command. Numerically, it was the fourth largest Allied air force, after the Soviet Union, the U.S. and Great Britain (of course, many times smaller than any of the three). Also, the equipment it used was, as that of the entire Polish Army in the west, leased by Great Britain to the Polish government. After the war, a bill for over 68 million pounds sterling, covering the equipment and operating costs of the Polish Air Force in Great Britain, was paid from the Polish gold reserves deposited in Canada. It's ironic that, cynically abandoned by her Western allies in Yalta after making a contribution of blood to the very survival of the Western democracies, Poland actually had to pay for the privilege. Still, from their standpoint, the Poles were fighting for their own country, hoping to return to a free Poland as her own independent armed forces.

marek_pk · 27-04-2006, 07:43 PM

[quote=spidge]Myth: The Polish Air Force was wiped out of existence during German invasion, and took no further part in WW II.
No way. While it indeed succumbed to German advantage in 1939, a large proportion of both ground personnel and aircrew were evacuated and interned in Romania and Hungary.quote]

Another aspect of the myth is that the PAF was supposed to have been destroyed on the ground in the first few hours.

If I can borrow Spidge's words:-
No way.

Most planes had been dispersed to secret locations.

They managed to shoot down an estimated 230 German planes (along will anti-aircraft fire. don't know the split)

Marek

maxs75 · 28-04-2006, 06:59 PM

I have the hypothesis that canadian AF and French air forces (and Maybe RAAF) were bigger than Polish AF. Weren't they?
AFAIK Polish AF squadrons were no. 300-309 and 315-318, while RCAF units were no. 400-444 article XV, plus few regular RCAF squadrons.
French AF at the end of the war was composed by 6 P-47 sqns, about 6 Spitfire, 3 P-39, 6 B-26, 2 Halifax, and many other recce, support, transport ones.
Was PAF bigger than just 14 squadrons?
Thanks in advance for the answer.
Max

von Poop · 28-04-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

I have the hypothesis that canadian AF and French air forces (and Maybe RAAF) were bigger than Polish AF. Weren't they?
AFAIK Polish AF squadrons were no. 300-309 and 315-318, while RCAF units were no. 400-444 article XV, plus few regular RCAF squadrons.
French AF at the end of the war was composed by 6 P-47 sqns, about 6 Spitfire, 3 P-39, 6 B-26, 2 Halifax, and many other recce, support, transport ones.
Was PAF bigger than just 14 squadrons?
Thanks in advance for the answer.
Max

Same site as Spidge's 'myths and misconceptions' quote comes from has a list of Polish air units in 1939
http://avstop.com/History/AroundTheW...land/main.html
Should be able to help with a comparison if you've got the French details.
Cheers,
Adam.

maxs75 · 30-04-2006, 10:09 AM

Von Poop,
I understand that spidge (spidge, confirm?) was speaking about late war, not 1939. My comparison was for 1944-1945, not 1939.

Max

spidge · 30-04-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxs75

Von Poop,
I understand that spidge (spidge, confirm?) was speaking about late war, not 1939. My comparison was for 1944-1945, not 1939.

Max

This is not confirmed however my personal interpretation:

The PAF was the sixth largest Air Force available to Britain with 15 operational squadrons by the end of the war.

27-04-2006, 02:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
spidge Legendary Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,919	Myths about the Polish AF...Didyou know? Myth: The Polish Air Force was wiped out of existence during German invasion, and took no further part in WW II. No way. While it indeed succumbed to German advantage in 1939, a large proportion of both ground personnel and aircrew were evacuated and interned in Romania and Hungary. With the help of Polish embassies and consulates, which provided false papers and bribe money, most of them were able to make their escape through the Mediterranean to France and England in time to take part in the defence of France and in the Battle of Britain. The Polish Air Force in Great Britain, though organizationally and operationally within the RAF structure, was an independent air force, and many decisions (like sending Polish pilots away from the European theatre) had to be agreed on with the Polish command. Numerically, it was the fourth largest Allied air force, after the Soviet Union, the U.S. and Great Britain (of course, many times smaller than any of the three). Also, the equipment it used was, as that of the entire Polish Army in the west, leased by Great Britain to the Polish government. After the war, a bill for over 68 million pounds sterling, covering the equipment and operating costs of the Polish Air Force in Great Britain, was paid from the Polish gold reserves deposited in Canada. It's ironic that, cynically abandoned by her Western allies in Yalta after making a contribution of blood to the very survival of the Western democracies, Poland actually had to pay for the privilege. Still, from their standpoint, the Poles were fighting for their own country, hoping to return to a free Poland as her own independent armed forces. __________________ Spidge, ------------------------------------------------------- My Avatar is the memorial to the 22 Commonwealth Coastwatchers at the Temakin Cemetery on Betio (Tarawa Atoll) who were beheaded by the Japanese on 15th October 1942. http://www.dva.gov.au/media/publicat...mem_beito.html "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." (Winston Churchill made this prophetic pronouncement in a House of Commons speech in 1938, just after Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement with Hitler. Chamberlain returned from Germany with the signed agreement in hand, proclaiming that "peace in our time" had been achieved. Churchill attacked Chamberlain's "politics of appeasement" in this and many other speeches.) What did the Australians do in ww2 and other conflicts? Check out this site: http://www.diggerhistory.info/00-pag...ster-index.htm

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27-04-2006, 07:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
marek_pk Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 155	[quote=spidge]Myth: The Polish Air Force was wiped out of existence during German invasion, and took no further part in WW II. No way. While it indeed succumbed to German advantage in 1939, a large proportion of both ground personnel and aircrew were evacuated and interned in Romania and Hungary.quote] Another aspect of the myth is that the PAF was supposed to have been destroyed on the ground in the first few hours. If I can borrow Spidge's words:- No way. Most planes had been dispersed to secret locations. They managed to shoot down an estimated 230 German planes (along will anti-aircraft fire. don't know the split) Marek

28-04-2006, 06:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
maxs75 Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 59	I have the hypothesis that canadian AF and French air forces (and Maybe RAAF) were bigger than Polish AF. Weren't they? AFAIK Polish AF squadrons were no. 300-309 and 315-318, while RCAF units were no. 400-444 article XV, plus few regular RCAF squadrons. French AF at the end of the war was composed by 6 P-47 sqns, about 6 Spitfire, 3 P-39, 6 B-26, 2 Halifax, and many other recce, support, transport ones. Was PAF bigger than just 14 squadrons? Thanks in advance for the answer. Max

30-04-2006, 10:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
maxs75 Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 59	Von Poop, I understand that spidge (spidge, confirm?) was speaking about late war, not 1939. My comparison was for 1944-1945, not 1939. Max

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