HMAS Sydney found?

[Andy in West Oz]

I've posted this in News as well as it is very important if it is the Sydney. Will leave it to the Mods to decide where to leave it!

I just saw the footage and it's not conclusive despite the guys involved saying they are 99% convinced its Sydney.

I'm surprised at the shallow depth. Actually quite embarrassing if it's her and she's been that shallow and not found in 66 years! But, if it's her, then a lot of families will have some closure.

The common thought was that she was/is further out and much deeper.

Claim HMAS Sydney wreck found off WA coast | NEWS.com.au

THE 66-year search for the wreck of HMAS Sydney is believed to be over.

The ship, in which 645 Australians died, is believed to have been found by a group of West Australians using a grappling hook and a camera last weekend.
The Sydney sank after a battle with German raider, Kormoran, on November 19, 1941, Fairfax newspapers said.
Video film of the find shows tangled wreckage over large, much longer than any other ship known to have sunk nearby.
The search team believe the video, which shows decking bolts, radio aerials, steam tubes and signs of massive damage show the wreck is the Sydney.
The shipwreck is near Cape Inscription on the northern end of Dirk Hartog Island.
It is in about 150m of water.

[Andy in West Oz]

Have posted further detail in the News section.

[PJSos]

Hi Andy, I caught the footage on channel 7 news this evening. One can only hope that there is the slightest chance that it is the Sydney. Who knows, there may even be an even slimmer chance that there is some evidance down there that may tie this wreck with the artifacts and remains of the sailor whose body was exhumed from Christmas Island not so long ago.

[Andy in West Oz]

PJSos, welcome to the forum, mate! There's some good info exchanged and great people here!

That's the other instance this year of Sydney being in the news - the Christmas Island sailor. Couldn't remember it before.

Let's just hope this is all building up to something.

[Andy in West Oz]

Here's the article I wrote last year which had been building for some time. Finally got to interview the man who knows what's going on and who has said that this recent find needs to be verified and that, if it is Sydney, he'll be the first to congratulate the guys.

Closer Still: Searching for HMAS Sydney

Somewhere off the Western Australian coast near Carnarvon, the grave site of 645 Australians lies in complete darkness, save for the natural glow of the deep ocean creatures that inhabit the sea floor several kilometres beneath the surface.

The grave site is the wreck of the HMAS Sydney, the pride of the Royal Australian Navy during the Second World War and lost with all hands in November 1941 after a fierce close range battle with the German raider, Kormoran. Sixty-five years of conflicting theories, arguments and frustration have done little to convince authorities that a search is worthwhile.

Finally, after extensive research and lobbying, a Perth based organisation has received part funding from the Federal and Western Australian governments to conduct a search for the Sydney. It will be a search that will hopefully close a chapter in the lives of many Australians who lost loved ones when the Sydney did not come home.

The reports of the German survivors from the Kormoran remain the only accounts of the loss of the Sydney. Understandably, many Australians did not believe the German account. They believed that there was more to the loss of Sydney than a simple, devastating battle at close range. Their wildly diverse theories have made their way into the public arena and continue to be discussed today. It was not until a seminar was held at the Fremantle Maritime Museum in 1991 that clarity began to be seen in the quest for the Sydney.

One of the outcomes of this seminar was that finding the Sydney was a government responsibility. A parliamentary enquiry was duly created and while keeping the loss of the Sydney and her crew in the public eye, the term of the enquiry unfortunately straddled a federal election which required a cessation of activity until the government settled back in. The enquiry eventually recommended that there be another seminar to re-examine the facts and subsequent investigations.

This next seminar was convened in 2001. Frustratingly, despite all the work done to present an accurate view on where the Sydney may lie, opposing views and theories were given voice. Despite the government essentially saying, “If you can all agree that it’s possible, we’ll do it”, no clear way forward was determined. Therefore, no recommendation was made to government and the Sydney was no closer to being found.

A group of frustrated individuals subsequently set themselves the task of researching and defining an area where they believed the Sydney sank. They became Sydney Search Pty Ltd. As all members were busy businessmen, it was decided they needed a “figurehead”, someone who had the time to be the face of Sydney Search, run its day to day existence and develop a broad range of contacts in the corporate, government and military sectors. Enter Commodore Bob Trotter, RAN (Ret’d).

Bob looks every inch a Navy man. Studious, sporting a full beard and with a piercing, determined gaze that can judge a person’s character from 20 paces, he has been the chief executive officer of Sydney Search since 2003:

“When I retired from the Navy…what I didn’t want to do was get into long term employment with another boss.

“What I was trying to do was to find things that I wanted to do and I had some autonomy over.”

Ted Graham, a Sydney Search director, approached Bob and told him the organisation needed “someone who had a little bit more time than they did to start moving some of [the] issues on”. Owing to his naval contacts and an association with the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney, Bob jumped at the chance.

He knew nothing of the conspiracies and passionate investigation surrounding the loss of the Sydney prior to moving to WA courtesy of the Navy.

“I was posted here…for the first time to my home state in my 34th year of naval service as the senior naval officer in WA,” he said.

“I soon came to learn that here in WA, the energy that was put into the Sydney thing by a number of people was something that I’d never really, well, I never even knew existed.

“From the east coast, there was nothing.”

Sydney Search had determined from its extensive research a definable area in which to search for the Sydney. They were able to substantiate their claim without conjecture or conspiracy. Unfortunately, they were thrown onto the heap of conspiracy theorists that had caused the moderator of the 2001 seminar to throw up his hands in despair and admit defeat as to the possibility of everyone agreeing on one theory.

Bob remembered when they began to apply some heat to a number of politicians and officials, renowned shipwreck hunter, David Mearns, appeared “almost out of left field”.

“He had been covering a lot of the same research that we’d undertaken but he was able to give a fresh view to it,” said Bob.

“We then put that to the then Chief of Navy…and he said, ‘This is convincing’.

“The biggest controversy at the time was between northern and the southern [search] sites and all of a sudden, by quite independent means… [we had] an informed view that the northern site was the most logical to go for.”

This support from an expert wreck hunter was what turned the tide in Sydney Search’s favour. Suddenly, government took them seriously. Here was an organisation that had risen above the conspiracies, done its research and managed to be backed up by an international figure “who had done this many times before”.

In 2005, Sydney Search was invigorated to approach the State and Federal governments for funding when a ship capable of performing a search was mobilised into the area for offshore work. That opportunity passed by as only two governments responded, $1.3 million being received from Canberra and $500,000 coming from the Western Australian government. Much more is needed. Bob Trotter:

“We need another $3 million.

“We’ve had widows of people who were lost in Sydney, on pensions, donating $1000.”

One of these widows is Pat Ingham. Pat’s husband, John Wakelin Ingham, joined the crew of the Sydney in 1938. John, “Jack” as he liked to be called, served in the Mediterranean and was on board the Sydney when she encountered the Kormoran. Pat and Jack were married only six weeks before the Sydney was lost. To this day, the only news Pat has received regarding her husband is a telegram saying that the ship was lost.

“It had to be assumed that they were lost at sea,” she said.

“I never received any other notification to say that they were presumed dead…because [the government] didn’t know.”

Born in England, Pat now uses a walking stick to steady herself. The stick belies an energy that would put many younger people to shame. After the loss of her Jack, Pat did not re-marry and felt the responsibility to continue his service. Initially, she struggled to keep going.

“It’s very hard to come to grips with,” she said.

“You didn’t expect it, I don’t know why you didn’t expect it but when you’re young, you don’t.

“Eventually, I went out and joined the Navy myself.”

Pat served in Perth and Sydney before the end of the war. After working overseas, she returned to Perth and continues to serve through various Naval associations and community groups. Impressed with the recent federal and WA government support, she remains baffled as to why financial support from other state governments has not been more widespread:

“It seems to be all too hard for them.

“[The money] could be easily raised if each state was to put in the same as Western Australia, it would be so simple.

“It’s a small amount from a government point of view…but I don’t know why they’re so reluctant.”

Bob Trotter and his colleagues remain hopeful of support that will bring the commencement of the search closer. When that day comes, there is no guarantee of a successful sonar search. Bob is quick to point out that they don’t actually know the exact location of the Sydney or the Kormoran.

“We’re not saying that we’re going to find these ships and that’s a subtlety [where] we’re having some difficulty with governments and benefactors,” he said.

“What we’re saying is that we want money to search an area.

“One result might be failure.”

It’s that risk of failure that has been a sticking point since the loss of the Sydney. No one could agree on where to start looking. The one constant in all of this has been the location of the Kormoran. German records actually reveal the coordinates of the battle and where the Kormoran was scuttled. Bob and his colleagues argue that there was no point in the Germans trying to hide where their ship sank. Any secrets would be hidden by several thousand metres of water. Therefore, finding the Kormoran is the key.

“We’ll [search for] Kormoran first because that’s the scene of the battle,” said Bob.

“Once you find Kormoran, just move a little bit south east and that’s where you’ll find Sydney.”

Finding either ship will debunk a lot of the theories regarding the battle and the sinkings. It will also put a lot of minds at ease. However, many of those minds have experienced over 60 years of loss for their loved ones or former crewmembers. Time is pushing on. Pat Ingham:

“It’s a finalisation of somebody’s life, everybody feels the same whether it’s at sea or on the land.

“You do want to know, you really do, but whether we will or not in our lifetime, who can tell?”

Sydney Search realises that finding Sydney will close a chapter in peoples’ lives. Bob receives many letters from not just the widows but the “brothers and the sisters and the daughters and the sons”. They all say the same thing: finding Sydney will bring closure, “it’s over because we’ve seen it”.

“It’s a national task, something that hasn’t been done for…almost 65 years,” said Bob.

“Our principles are that everything we see and do, whether it be sonar information, video, visual and whatever, is public knowledge in its un-edited form.”

The search for Sydney may yet end in failure. Right now, after almost 65 years of indecision, there is direction towards a result. The 645 men of the HMAS Sydney would expect Australia to never give up searching for them, just as they never gave up serving this country. We owe them that much, and more. They are waiting in the darkness of the sea floor. They are waiting to come home.