Ak47, Did Mikhail Kalashnikov copy the StG-44?

[Herroberst]

Did Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov copy the StG-44 for his AK-47 design? Discuss.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

I think so. One only has to look at the design to know that it is an influence. From the curved barrel to the stock on both they are extremely alike. So I said yes!

[von Poop]

hmmmm..
Couldn't really say 'copied the design' as they are far from being the same gun, copied the concept certainly but it was a concept that was ready to break out in armaments firms worldwide anyway, was the 'Kurz' or short round an exclusively German idea?, not sure but I've got a feeling the British (possibly other nations too) had been seriously considering the idea for a while and as so often with Armaments design the Round often precedes the gun.
I'll put myself down as undecided.
I'm going to have to re-read some books now so cheers for that.

[Gage]

Hi bud. It has been said that he did indeed copy a lot from the Mp44.
Wasn't the MP44 the first assault rifle?

[CROONAERT]

Originally Posted by Gage

Wasn't the MP44 the first assault rifle?

No.(but it was the first one to be named as such)

Dave

[von Poop]

Finally voted 'No'.
To say he copied the design is like saying the Spitfire was 'copied' from the 109 (or vice versa) in as far as they are both Fighters that were developed at roughly the same time. Been re-reading and looking into it and the SU had no real need at all to copy the 44, fine heritage of automatic rifles in their own right and the AK was a fairly logical extension of these. The concept of the Intermediate round had also occured to them (and been adopted) long before. In fact you could say the arrangement of the 44 was an adaptation of the Russian Tokarev layout. The belief that the AK is a copy of the 44 seems to me to be a little lazy and based purely on their similar shapes... Remember if the Russians copied something, from Tank transmissions to cameras they tended to copy it exactly with modifications only to improve production efficiency. The Ak does not fit in this category.
Cheers,
Adam

[spidge]

Nice synopsis Von Poop.

You have convinced me!

[Herroberst]

Originally Posted by spidge

Nice synopsis Von Poop.

You have convinced me!

Some good reading, Peter R. Senich's book on the German Assault rifle.

Hugo Schmeisser was forced to work along with others from Haenel under Kalashnikov at the end of the war and mysteriously died in 1953. The Ak-47 was released in 1947 years after the Mp44. The AK-47 borrows its cartridge concept, weapon layout, gas system, and construction methods from the StG44.

Schmeisser started work on the Mkb 42 at Industriewerk Auhammer Koch und Co in 1938, it went to trials in 42. Later versions became the StG-44.

So you decide

[von Poop]

Somebody dying at age 69 after a lifetime spent in the presence of explosives and machinery along with a traumatic capture from which he had recently been released is hardly mysterious chap.
You've cited this before on ******* but I still can't go with it. The direction of Kalashnikov's astonishing self-taught career (and Soviet Gun design in general) from his wounding onwards all tends to point, ultimately, towards the AK. Again I can't deny an influence in as much as similar sciences at similar times are bound to reflect one another but I still don't see the AK as any sort of copy. Noone would call the excellent PPSh a copy of any earlier gun even though there were many similar predecessors.
Also good reading: Anything by McNabb on the AK, and of course Ian Hogg, who also seems pretty disinterested in any real suggestion that the Gun is a copy.
Cheers,
Adam.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

The AK-47 and MP 44 are very different in internal design, and different in layout as well.

This thread might be of interest to you: <http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1409>