The Sherman Tank what an amazing vehicle!!

[von Poop]

Originally Posted by Owen D

They can also survive an 88, damaged, yes, but not brewed.
E18707
Description: A soldier in the tank recovery section of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME) examines damage inflicted by an 88mm anti-tank gun to the barrel of a Sherman tank, which is about to be recovered from the battlefield, October 1942. Another shell hit can be seen on the side of the turret.

And when they get it back for repair it's parts will be near fully interchangeable with any rusty old part they might have lying around in their war-torn, far from ideal workshop.
The more I read and talk to vets the more surprised I am at how often there seems to be a chance of crew survival, regardless of axis/allied or vehicle type. The usual assumption is that any knocked out tank means a completely dead crew and that was certainly the terrible, incendiary fate of many thousands (something so awful I really can't imagine it, even while getting a truly graphic account from some bloke with an RTR capbadge) but it does not seem to have been the case in the majority of severe hits on a vehicle, so many talk of 'getting a new tank' after surviving some horror or other on so many occasions throughout their wartime careers and thank goodness there were so many Shermans around for them to climb back into and continue the fight.

[Owen]

The Black Bull by Patrick Delaforce

Op Goodwood, 11th Armd lost 191 tanks and 735 casualties.The CREME looked over 115 tanks and other AVs. Brew ups were left but all 2nd or 3rd line repairs were recovered. Sherman Mark 2 and 5 were considered easier to repair than Cromwells.

Miles Dempsey said of Goodwood, "We could afford the tanks because they had begun to pile up in the beachead [500 or more Shermans lying idle.] Our tank losses were severe but our casualties in men were very light. if I tried to achieve the same result with a conventonal infantry attack I hate to think what the casualties would have been."

[Owen]

OK so this one was taken out by an 88. Again not brewed but disabled in a good enough state to be salvaged.

NA 16518.
Description: A 75mm gun being salvaged from a knocked-outSherman tank at 26th Armoured Brigade workshops in Perugia, 30 June 1944. The entry point for an 88mm shell can be seen on the side of the tank's hull.

[Owen]

Oh look another Sherman surviving a hit from an 88.
B5423
Description: The crew of a Sherman tank of the Westminster Dragoons (2nd County of London Yeomanry) repairing damage to one of its suspension units caused by an 88mm anti-tank shell, 7 June 1944.

[Owen]

Until I hear from a Veteran who fought in a Sherman tell me they were rubbish I will stand up for them and their crews who as I say seem to suffer from this syndrome where people think all German Panzers and crews were brilliant, the British were no good.
I'm not saying the Sherman was perfect but it has this reputation thrust on it that needs addressing.

[Owen]

Finally one last sad picture. Does this help my case for defending the Sherman? Maybe not, just thought it was a good photo.

B8394
Description: The remains of Sherman tanks and carriers waiting to be broken up at a vehicle dump in Normandy, 1 August 1944. All salvageable parts have been removed and the remaining components are shipped back to Britain to be smelted down and used in the production of new vehicles.

[von Poop]

Originally Posted by Owen D

B8394
Description: The remains of Sherman tanks and carriers waiting to be broken up at a vehicle dump in Normandy, 1 August 1944.

Having done, unwillingly and with years less preparation for war, what needed to be done, in combination with artillery, air and men on foot, to the other side.:

Panthers at Falaise from http://www.lemaire.happyhost.org/char/complet/462.html

[Owen]

One last point for tonight.
I won't post the pictures, but click here.
IWM Collections Online: Search Photographs Archive

in the "subject" box put "88mm", see how many images there are of Shermans driving past wrecked 88mm guns.

[sapper]

I can only talk as a Veteran of the Normandy, Goodwood, Falaise and Market Garden battles and operations.
It is no surprise that the Sherman was described by the enemy as the "Tommy Cooker" Or by our own Tank men as "The Ronson Lighter" "Lights first time every time"
Heavens knows the Sappers were known as our "little friends" and with a great deal of respect by the Armoured lads. The Sherman had one advantage and only one, it was available en mass.

It stood up in the air, waiting to be seen it was under gunned, it had thin armour, and it jad a shocking tendency to burst into flames.
But it must be said, that there were plenty of them.m All that I write about them is what I learned in action. Not from second hand musings.
Sapper

[Owen]

Brian,
With greatest respect to you being a fine Royal Engineer a couple of your points about the Sherman have already been refuted.

We have compared tank heights and the Sherman was no taller than it's contempories, it was narrower which made it look taller.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons...?highlight=kyt







The armour situation was looked into and extra was added and the ammo storage amended too.

What other tank was there the Allies could have used from 1942 until the end?

What other tank could have driven from Normandy to Belgium and Holland without needing tank transporters?

What other tank was rugged, reliable and easy to maintain as the Sherman, as I've said, it was easier to repair than the Cromwell.

What was the alternative, hold up the war until we invented something else?