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30-01-2007, 12:19 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Ostfront is where its at!   Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,495
 | Gread thread lads and good links too. But my question is "why would the Germans want to use them apart from the surprise element??" The ammo would run out pretty quick and there would be no way to replenish it surely?
__________________ "The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse." - General Heinz Guderian "With amazement and disappointment, we discovered in late October and early November that the beaten Russians seemed quite unaware that as a military force they had almost ceased to exist." - General Blumentritt "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen me fight so hard." Lieutenant General Wilhelm Bittrich - Commander of II SS Panzer Korps - (Commenting on the British Paratroopers at Arnhem) - September 1944 "Had Clark given more heed to Juin's views...the savage battles of Cassino would probably never have been fought and the venerable house of St Benedict would have been unscathed" Rudolf Böhmler - 1st Fallschirmjäger Division - 1944 (After the bombing of Monte Cassino) |
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30-01-2007, 12:44 PM
| #13 (permalink) |
| I Like Tanks.   Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion.
Posts: 7,682
| With reference to Normandy; I think the rate they were losing vehicles (c.1500 'A' vehicles throughout the campaign?) they'd take any old port in a storm wouldn't they? Particularly one with a decent gun. The defensive nature of much of their fight would make the Firefly (or any other intact AFV) another handy TD hidden in the bushes. As for ammo supply, I bet they could lay their hands on enough to maintain the gun for it's inevitably short life. Also, why not? even if you had only 20 rounds of 17pdr; each of those is still better than nothing, especially in the desperate buildup to Falaise, once it's run out; dump the thing and be thankful for a little bonus.
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30-01-2007, 09:57 PM
| #14 (permalink) |
| Very Senior Member   Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,070
| The ammo isnt that rare is it, Standard 17 pounder ammo isnt it? The Germans where amazing at using captured gear. By this stage in the war I bet they know how to get hold of more consumables and look after their captured gear better than the original owners did. Prob parts books, spares, manuals, everything. Prob better than the British army. Kev |
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31-01-2007, 12:12 AM
| #15 (permalink) |
| Senior Member   Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NW Kent, England
Posts: 763
 | How do you tell its a Firefly - I know it had a 17 -pdr gun rather than a 76mm, but what was the visual difference?
__________________ for heathen heart that puts its trust in reeking tube and iron shard all valiant dust that builds on dust and guarding, calls not thee to guard thy mercy on thy people, Lord (Kipling) |
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31-01-2007, 12:24 AM
| #16 (permalink) | |
| I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion.
Posts: 7,682
| Quote:
Bloke at Cobbaton Combat has acquired a 17pdr AT gun. It was displayed at a recent show with a small selection of various types of appropriate shells, cases, etc. and it was reckoned the Ammo was probably worth more than the gun itself. Adrian, the main visual difference is that exceptionally long gun with the distinctive rounded muzzle brake and the extended bustle, stood by a row of Shermans with some mates once having this argument and just had to point upwards at the 17pdr gun, about twice as long as the other Shermans present.
__________________ It's only the Internet. Last edited by von Poop; 31-01-2007 at 12:27 AM. | |
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31-01-2007, 09:33 AM
| #17 (permalink) |
| Very Senior Member   Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,105
 | Has anyone seen any photos of the Firefly with the dummy gun? Sherman Register - Sherman Firefly And I'm sure these have been posted before but what the hell: Sherman Firefly 17pdr UK
__________________ _______________________________________ Squadron Leader Pujji - Audio Interviews (half way down the page) |
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31-01-2007, 09:46 AM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Top Moose  Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs
Posts: 8,693
| These Germans looking at abandoned Firefly here. http://www.desertrats.org.btinternet...Sqdn4clyVB.jpg From Villers-Bocage Commemoration Page Did you know Argentina used Fireflies too. Argentina http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/a...refly-1969.jpg later I read they put 105mm in their Shermans. Last edited by Owen; 31-01-2007 at 09:50 AM. |
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03-02-2007, 04:31 PM
| #19 (permalink) |
| I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion.
Posts: 7,682
| By coincidence this month's issue (March) of 'Military Machines International' magazine has an article on Beutepanzers. Concentrating on French captured gear with many (largely new to me) photographs of French tanks in German service, Just reading it now, seems rather good. (maybe there'll be something on the Char b's fuel supply for the French Armour thread  )
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