German Firefly

Kyt · 28-01-2007, 12:33 AM

Are these pictures of the same Firefly? Was more than one captured and used by the Germans?

From: Achtung Panzer! - Captured Tanks Gallery I!

Captured British Sherman VC "Firefly" (armed with 17 pounder gun) in Normandy, 1944.
It was marked with extensive number of German Crosses for identification purposes.

Captured British Sherman VC "Firefly" (armed with 17 pounder gun) in Normandy, 1944.
It was marked with extensive number of German Crosses for identification purposes.

The attached scan is from Battle for Caen (Battle Zone Normandy series)

Owen · 28-01-2007, 12:39 AM

If I was a German tankie, I wouldn't want to crew it.

von Poop · 28-01-2007, 12:58 AM

Looks like the same vehicle but not the only captured example. Eg.:

Quote:

There is also a fascinating captured Firefly featured in several photos, complete with extended end connectors on the tracks, spare track links welded to the hull front, side, and turret, and a German muzzle brake on the 17 pdr. gun. - Review of Panzerwrecks book on http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/armourreviews/id38.html

Clearly not the one above, could be this one:

From a fascinating but slow Russian site: http://beute.narod.ru/ on Beutepanzers
Which has links to several pages of captured Firefly shots but I'm still waiting for 'em to load, what I can see so far are very good indeed.
Edit:- Noticed a much faster mirror of the Beutepanzer site at: http://beute.pz1.ru/ really is excellent stuff.
Cheers,
Adam

Kyt · 28-01-2007, 01:03 AM

Cheers VP - as all three of my pictures seemed so similar, I thought it may have been the only one (and used as propaganda etc).

montgomery · 28-01-2007, 05:20 AM

cool they did capture some fireflys I can not wait to by a model firefly and use it as a captured tank.

von Poop · 28-01-2007, 12:00 PM

Just noticed there's a much faster Mirror of that Beutepanzer site at:
http://beute.pz1.ru/

Owen · 28-01-2007, 12:54 PM

Great find Adam.
Where they left in green or overpainted Panzer Grey?

von Poop · 28-01-2007, 01:07 PM

That site's a blinder isn't it.
On colour I'm not 100% sure but In most colour pics of captured gear it's been repainted (eg. the t34 recovered in that video is panzergrau) , I know I'd want to do that rather than add to the already huge potential for 'blue on blue'.
It was pretty standard practice for German crews to paint their vehicles in the field. (until quite late in the war when factory patterns were nominally enforced, that's quite a 'loose' and big subject so I won't go there) They used a kind of paste/pigment that could be diluted in pretty much anything from water to petrol, I've even read of Urine being used. So it would be no big deal or pain in the BTM to repaint captured gear, surely worth the bother.

Owen · 28-01-2007, 01:09 PM

Just surprised they weren't repainted in the 3 colour camo. sand/green/redbrown.(see the T34 and Valentines on that site in GB section)
Also all GB markings overpainted which is a shame, trying to work out original owners.

von Poop · 30-01-2007, 11:20 AM

Looks rather good on a Sherman:
http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/color/lend-lease.htm

Video page is interesting too:
http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/video/video-1.htm

28-01-2007, 01:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kyt Very Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,105	Cheers VP - as all three of my pictures seemed so similar, I thought it may have been the only one (and used as propaganda etc). __________________ _______________________________________ Squadron Leader Pujji - Audio Interviews (half way down the page)

28-01-2007, 12:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
von Poop I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion. Posts: 7,679	Just noticed there's a much faster Mirror of that Beutepanzer site at: http://beute.pz1.ru/ __________________ It's only the Internet.

28-01-2007, 01:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
von Poop I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion. Posts: 7,679	That site's a blinder isn't it. On colour I'm not 100% sure but In most colour pics of captured gear it's been repainted (eg. the t34 recovered in that video is panzergrau) , I know I'd want to do that rather than add to the already huge potential for 'blue on blue'. It was pretty standard practice for German crews to paint their vehicles in the field. (until quite late in the war when factory patterns were nominally enforced, that's quite a 'loose' and big subject so I won't go there) They used a kind of paste/pigment that could be diluted in pretty much anything from water to petrol, I've even read of Urine being used. So it would be no big deal or pain in the BTM to repaint captured gear, surely worth the bother. __________________ It's only the Internet.

28-01-2007, 01:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 8,686	Just surprised they weren't repainted in the 3 colour camo. sand/green/redbrown.(see the T34 and Valentines on that site in GB section) Also all GB markings overpainted which is a shame, trying to work out original owners. Last edited by Owen; 28-01-2007 at 01:11 PM.

30-01-2007, 11:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
von Poop I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion. Posts: 7,679	Looks rather good on a Sherman: http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/color/lend-lease.htm Video page is interesting too: http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/video/video-1.htm __________________ It's only the Internet.

28-01-2007, 12:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 8,686	If I was a German tankie, I wouldn't want to crew it.

28-01-2007, 05:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
montgomery Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ashurst Posts: 100	cool they did capture some fireflys I can not wait to by a model firefly and use it as a captured tank.

28-01-2007, 12:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 8,686	Great find Adam. Where they left in green or overpainted Panzer Grey?

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