HMAS Sydney found?

[Andy in West Oz]

I just saw the footage and it's not conclusive despite the guys involved saying they are 99% convinced its Sydney.

I'm surprised at the shallow depth. Actually quite embarrassing if it's her and she's been that shallow and not found in 66 years! But, if it's her, then a lot of families will have some closure.

The common thought was that she was/is further out and much deeper.

Claim HMAS Sydney wreck found off WA coast | NEWS.com.au

THE 66-year search for the wreck of HMAS Sydney is believed to be over.

The ship, in which 645 Australians died, is believed to have been found by a group of West Australians using a grappling hook and a camera last weekend.
The Sydney sank after a battle with German raider, Kormoran, on November 19, 1941, Fairfax newspapers said.
Video film of the find shows tangled wreckage over large, much longer than any other ship known to have sunk nearby.
The search team believe the video, which shows decking bolts, radio aerials, steam tubes and signs of massive damage show the wreck is the Sydney.
The shipwreck is near Cape Inscription on the northern end of Dirk Hartog Island.
It is in about 150m of water.

[Andy in West Oz]

Interestingly, there has been a bit of talk about Sydney this year. It all started when some guy cliamed he had found Sydney along with a Japanese submarine, the Kormoran and, wait for it, a Japanese aircraft carrier...

Then there was this report which correlates with what the current thinking is - find the Kormoran and you'll find the Sydney (interestingly the recent wreck find is SE of where the battle was apparently fought):

New clues in HMAS Sydney mystery - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

New clues in HMAS Sydney mystery

Posted Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:10am AEST
Updated Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:12am AEST
The crew of HMAS Sydney, which was sunk in November 1941 with the loss of 645 lives. (ABC)


One of Australia's most intriguing maritime mysteries may soon be solved.
HMAS Sydney and all 645 crew disappeared in November 1941 after a battle with the German ship HSK Kormoran off the coast of Western Australia.
The Kormoran's Commanding Officer Theodor Detmers recorded his account of the battle in an encoded message in a dictionary.
Retired Captain Peter Hore has deciphered the code and says it will lead searchers to the site of the Kormoran.
"We don't know where the Sydney is but once we've found the Kormoran we will know in which direction to look because all the reports tell us that Sydney limped off into the darkness, somewhere in a sort of south-easterly direction," he said.
"Once we've established a datum by finding the wreck of the Kormoran then from there we can go south and go and search for Sydney."

And then we've got this latest claim to have discovered her. Sooner or later...

[Andy in West Oz]

From Wikipedia (they're quick!):

There have been many unsuccessful attempts to locate the wreck over the years. In 2005, a prominent shipwreck hunter, David Mearns, mounted another expedition to find the wreck with the assistance of the latest sonar technology, and newly-revealed details recorded by the commander of Kormoran, Theodor Detmers.
In June 2007, British maritime researcher Timothy Akers a former employee of David Mearns, claimed to have located the wreck of the Sydney along with other wrecks from a Japanese Battle Group in the vicinity, using high quality satellite imagery he purchased.^[2] However, this claim has been disputed, and Ted Graham, the chairman of the Perth-based volunteer company HMAS Sydney Search, has dismissed the possibility the wreck can be located using satellite imagery.^[3]
On 11 August 2007 a group of amateur wreck hunters claimed that they had located the wreck of HMAS Sydney off Cape Inscription on the northern end of Dirk Hartog Island. ^[4]

[Andy in West Oz]

We found wreck of the Sydney - National - smh.com.au

We found wreck of the Sydney

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Searchers Graham Shepherd, Ian Stiles and Phil Shepherd.
Photo: Greg Burke

Latest related coverage

• Our most enduring and tragic riddle

Paul Murray
August 11, 2007


THE 66-year search for the wreck of HMAS Sydney, on which 645 Australians lost their lives, is almost certainly over.
A group of West Australians using just a grappling hook and an underwater camera last weekend found what they are sure is the Sydney, which sank after a battle with the German raider Kormoran on November 19, 1941.
Their video film shows scenes of tangled wreckage over a vast expanse of deck, much longer than any other vessel known to have sunk in the area.
The search team believe a series of details clearly visible on their video - decking bolts, extensive radio aerials, steam tubes and signs of massive damage - all point to the Sydney. The wreck is off Cape Inscription on the northern end of Dirk Hartog Island in about 150 metres of water.
Phil Shepherd, an amateur researcher who has been intrigued by the Sydney's fate for 61 years, since he saw a lifeboat from the Kormoran (which also sank in the battle), said last night it was unlikely the wreck could be anything else.
"I've always wanted to find out where the souls of those sailors lay for all the people who have grieved over the years," Mr Shepherd said. "I've got a family member there too.
"This is a sacred site and a war grave - probably our most important war grave. We hope we can give the families some closure knowing where their people are and where they can place some flowers."
Mr Shepherd, who has been involved in other groups searching for the Sydney, said that despite the rudimentary nature of the video, it provided strong evidence supporting his contention.
"Sydney had a huge aerial system for its wireless telegraphy, and we think we're seeing that on the video," he said.
"There are bolts sticking out of the deck, lots of steam pipes and tangled wreckage. The bolts are important because we know the Sydney had timber decking that was tied down by the bolts.
"You would not expect that sort of damage from anything that had just sunk. It is inconsistent with it being anything else, like a merchant ship.
"I knew the Sydney was flattened by the Kormoran by gunfire. She caught fire because of the wooden decking. We believe she took a torpedo and was down by the bow and yawing.
"I became more convinced when I saw all these halyards and what looked like aerial wires with insulators strewn over the debris, over railings. It looked like the mast had been shot down. All of this convinced me it wasn't an ordinary vessel.

"It didn't prove to me that it was a military vessel, but I asked myself: What else could it be if it's not the Sydney? The only other vessel it could be in that location is the Kormoran. If it was any

Mr Shepherd said that about 15 years ago he noticed an anomaly on the seabed when he was fishing (Andy says - there was even talk about a fish only found in the Med being caught and the concvlusion was its ancestors had survived in Sydney's bilge until she sank). But it was before the days of global positioning systems and he did not know how to get back to the spot.
Early this year he was given a location close to that spot by the son of a local fisherman, who had pulled up a copper bolt with a little bit of white timber attached to it about 12 years ago.
"From all of my research, with this new information, it became logically possible that this was the location," Mr Shepherd said.
He began working with his son, Graham, master divers Ian Stiles and Trevor Beaver, Perth businessman Terry Crommelin and diving supplies agent Simon van Zeller to work out a way to investigate the site. They devised a method of getting a camera down to film it. Last weekend the late fisherman's son agreed to take them to the spot.
"We put down a heavy grapple and we were on the spot nearly straight away and hooked up on something," Mr Shepherd said. "We put the camera down on a tether rope … When we got to the bottom we got pictures, and within three minutes we spotted what looked like a spoon - which we now believe was a shovel - just lying in the sand.
"Then this shape of what we thought was part of an aerial - now we think it's a railing - just came up out of the gloom.
"We were absolutely gobsmacked. And it just got better and better."
Mr Stiles took GPS locations as the camera travelled along the deck of the wreck to the extent of available movement. He logged a length of 30 metres. The Sydney was about 170 metres long.
Footage on Channel Seven's 6pm news and on smh.com.au tonight.

[Andy in West Oz]

HMAS Sydney found, group claims

Posted Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:36am AEST
Updated Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:42am AEST
Lost at sea: The crew of the HMAS Sydney (AAP: Supplied)

• Map: Carnarvon 6701

The patron of a long-running effort to find the wreck of the Australian World War II warship HMAS Sydney says claims the ship has been found need to be verified as soon as possible.
The Sydney sank with 645 crew on board in November 1941 after a battle against the German raider Kormoran off the coast of Western Australia.
The ship's wreck has never been found, but now a team of amateur researchers is claiming to have located it in 150 metres of water off Dirk Hartog Island near Carnarvon.
Former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer, a patron of the Finding Sydney Foundation, says despite a number of false leads in the past, this one seems to have substance.
"This is seemingly a welcome breakthrough after all these years - over six decades - and if it proves up to detailed analysis [the families] will be absolutely delighted," he said.
"[There will be] closure for many families living in Sydney and Melbourne and right around Australia, who lost loved ones and members of their family on the HMAS Sydney when it sank."
The Foundation's Bob Trotter says the claim is exciting but needs to be verified.
"If they're right we'd be the first to say well done," he said.

HMAS Sydney found, group claims - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[Andy in West Oz]

The A$2.9 million mentioned in this article would have finally given Sydney Search the rest of the funds they need to conduct their search. It may not be needed but time will tell.

Experts claim that HMAS Sydney discovery in doubt | PerthNow

AUSTRALIAN defence and maritime officials say it is premature to claim HMAS Sydney has been found.
They urged caution, warning that the wreck might be a prawn trawler or other vessel.

"This is potentially an exciting development and we are committed to doing what we can to verify the claim (that the wreck of the HMAS Sydney has been found), but it must be stressed that at this stage it is still unconfirmed,'' Minister Assisting the Minister for Defence Bruce Billson said yesterday.

"If this turns out to be the Sydney, then this will be an absolutely wonderful outcome.''

Jurien Bay resident and master diver Ian Stiles rang Mr Billson's office on Friday saying: ``I think we've found something.''

Mr Stiles, amateur researcher Phil Shepherd and several others believe HMAS Sydney is lying off Cape Inscription on the northern end of Dirk Hartog Island, off Shark Bay, in about 150m of water.
HMAS Sydney was last seen off Shark Bay before it was believed to have been sunk on November 19, 1941, by the German raider Kormoran.

All 645 men on board perished, making it the biggest maritime disaster in Australian history.
Curator of maritime archeology at the WA Museum Mike McCarthy said some vessels had sunk in the area.

Dr McCarthy said a copper bolt found in the area some years ago by fisherman Dion Hipper and his father, Marshall, had raised hopes the Sydney was nearby, but after inspecting the bolt he believed it belonged to a stricken prawn trawler, the Serena Pearle.

Another vessel, the Empire Grassland, had also sunk in the area, he said.

"We are treating this (latest claim) carefully, objectively and with hope,'' Dr McCarthy said.

"I think everyone is hoping it is the Sydney because this has gone on too long.''

Glenys McDonald, who wrote a book about HMAS Sydney, said yesterday Mr Shepherd had phoned her on Friday, excited by the find.

"Phil contacted me and said they had put their cameras down and the vessel was quite large and there were a lot of aerials and stuff strewn everywhere,'' she said.

"I said, `My goodness, you are going public with this without having it confirmed' and he said, 'Look, it couldn't be anything else'.''

The Federal Government intended to announce today a $2.9 million grant to a Perth-based group, HMAS Sydney Search Pty Ltd, to help find the missing wreck.

A spokesman for Mr Billson said the announcement had been shelved because of the latest claims, but the Federal Government would dip into the funding to help Mr Shepherd's group if needed.

[Andy in West Oz]

HMAS 'Sydney' claim raises treasure hunt fears - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

There is concern international privateers and relic hunters will seek to profit from what is believed to be the wreck of the warship HMAS Sydney.
A group of amateur researchers claim to have found the wreck off the coast of Western Australia, near Carnarvon.
The Sydney was sunk off the WA coast during World War II, killing the entire crew of 645.
Former Western Australian MP Philip Pendal chaired a select committee into shipwrecks off the WA coast and says the Federal Government must move to authenticate and protect the site.
He says the interests of the finders must also be protected.
"We've seen an appalling list of cases in the past 50 years where the finders of important shipwrecks have been treated badly and I don't think we have to have that repeated," he said.
The men involved are refusing to speak to the ABC and most other media outlets.
It is understood they are attempting to secure payment or sponsorship in relation to the find.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson says his department is in contact with the researchers.
He says while the results so far are encouraging, no one can be certain until the Navy has conducted a survey of the wreck.
"I'm advised by the Chief of Defence that we can have a Naval survey ship examine the wreck in some detail within the next week and until such time as we've actually ascertained certainly whether it is Sydney or isn't Sydney, I don't think that we should unfairly raise the expectations of Australia and particularly the families of those whose lives were lost," he said.

[Andy in West Oz]

Diver challenges HMAS 'Sydney' claims - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

A commercial skipper and diver says a shipwreck found off Western Australia's Gascoyne Coast may not be that of HMAS Sydney.
The Sydney was sunk off the WA coast in 1941 by the German raider, Kormoran.
A group of amateur researchers claims to have found HMAS Sydney in 150 metres of water off Dirk Hartog Island near Carnarvon.
John Daly says he has seen the readings of a sonar device used in the area and says it is a large structure, but not as big as HMAS Sydney.
"If you take the dimensions of three large shipping containers and go three end to end, and three high and maybe two and half wide, that would give you a fair approximation of what we believe we saw on the bottom," he said.

[Andy in West Oz]

HMAS Sydney 'finders' furious at coordinates claim | PerthNow

[Andy in West Oz]

My initial reaction of "Nah" when I saw the pics was right but it was my own view based on some knowledge and "feeling" so I wasn't going ot publicise it as I;m far from an expert! I hope these guys don't lose heart though. They maybe got a bit carried away but they've got the passion.

Navy sinks HMAS Sydney hopes | NEWS.com.au

A ROYAL Australian Navy ship has found "nothing of interest" at a wreck site off the West Australian coast that newspapers last week claimed was the resting place of HMAS Sydney.

Navy sources confirmed that HMAS Leeuwin, a hydrographic survey ship with sophisticated scanning and sonar equipment, had completed its sweep through an area off Dirk Hartog Island, 800km north of Perth, and had reported its findings to Canberra last night.
Fairfax newspapers, the Seven Network and The West Australian claimed last week a group of local enthusiasts had discovered the wreck of the Sydney, which went down in November 1941 with all 645 crew.
But inquiries by The Weekend Australian raised questions about the group's claim that the Sydney rests in 130m of water 20 nautical miles off the island.
It is believed the Leeuwin may have detected a vessel about 30m long and four or five metres high.

Veterans Affairs Minister Bruce Billson is expected to make an announcement about the find - or lack of it - over the weekend.
Not Sydney, but may be a barge

The vessel may be an old barge that was sunk off the island in the 1940s, locals believe.
Last night, British-based marine salvage expert David Mearns - who is expected to lead a federal and state government-backed search for the Sydney early next year - said it was a lesson to all.
"To be blunt, they didn't know what they were doing," he said from Italy.

"They made a grave mistake both at sea and in how they dealt with it in the media.
"It serves as a lesson to everybody - including journalists - that these things should be done in a proper and professional way.
"I heard it ended up on the front page of a broadsheet (The Sydney Morning Herald) and I find it amazing they don't check their facts properly, or try to contact experts to get a balanced opinion or verify something as important as this.
"I'm sure the editors will have a lot of egg on their faces today."
Pondering the location of Sydney has been a popular pastime on the shipwreck-littered stretch of Gascoyne coast where the light cruiser and the German raider the Kormoran fought to the death in November 1941.
Marshall Hipper, former deputy shire president of Shark Bay, was told years earlier by the state museum that a bolt his sons Dion and Adrian fished from a wreck on the ocean floor in September 2001 came from a wooden vessel - not the Sydney.
'Never stopped believing'

But the 71-year-old never stopped believing the wreck was the long-lost war grave and he wanted others to believe him too, his widow Midge Hipper told The Weekend Australian yesterday.
A small group of enthusiasts led by Graham and Phil Shepherd from his home town of Denham believed him, and last Saturday - seven months after Hipper's death - newspapers burst into print with celebratory banner headlines, including a front-page declaration in The West Australian screeching: "FOUND".
In the following days, maritime experts expressed their disbelief, as well as disapproval at the certainty with which the group and the media organisations proclaimed their find.
Bruce Teede, 79, of Carnarvon, was one of the locals who scoffed, saying: "Codswallop."
The bombshell announcement forced the federal Government to investigate, and meanwhile postpone more than $2 million in funding for the non-profit HMAS Sydney Search, which was preparing to conduct a deep-sea scan of an area it and many others believe is the most likely resting place of the two legendary warships - about 150 nautical miles off Carnarvon.
Since 2002, and with the backing of independent experts, HMAS Sydney Search has used decoded German notes and other official sources to decide on the search area, which will it will scan early next year.
This week's events angered Mr Billson, whose attempts to have the Navy verify last weekend's claims were initially frustrated when the group refused to reveal the co-ordinates.
Leeuwin arrived yesterday at the site where the group was hovering over the wreck.

Sources said the men were having trouble getting their equipment powered and asked the Navy for help.
But there was a chance their gear could have corrupted the Navy's equipment, and the request was refused.

The Leeuwin is expected to be in the area for another few days while it examines at least two other wreck sites.
Sydney discovered 'every six months'

West Australian Museum director of maritime archeology Mike McCarthy told Hipper in 2002 the copper bolt his sons found at the site could not be from the Sydney.
Dr McCarthy said he heard from people who thought they had discovered the Sydney about every six months.
He said he understood the interest because its loss, and the government's inadequate response over many decades, had an effect on the national psyche.
"We lost boys and men from every city," he said.
The Shire of Shark Bay had known of the wreck for years and had found it to be far smaller than the Sydney - 30-36m compared with 170m.

This compares favourably with the shape and substance of what the Leeuwin has found.

The shire is embroiled in a legal squabble with the WA Museum over maritime archeological objects in the coastal fishing town of Denham's new interpretive centre, which the shire wants to keep as it positions itself as the place tourists visit to learn about the Sydney and other wrecks.
Mrs Hipper said her husband, who lived for 33 years in Denham, could never get the media traction for his find the Shepherds achieved.
Last year while in treatment for lung cancer at Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital in Perth, Mr Hipper made calls to regional TV station Golden West Network claiming he had solved the 66-year-old mystery of the Sydney.
"They were promising to come round and interview him but he was slurring his words a little bit and they probably thought 'Silly old thing, doesn't know what he's talking about'," she said.