DIEPPE

[Franek]

infantrymen, predominantly Canadian, were supported by large British naval and Allied air force contingents. The objective was to seize and hold a major port for a short period, both to prove it was possible and to gather intelligence from prisoners and captured materials while assessing the German responses.
No major objectives of the raid were accomplished. 3,623 of the 6,086 men who made it ashore were either killed, wounded, or captured. The Allied air forces failed to lure the Luftwaffe into open battle, and lost 119 planes, while the Royal Navy suffered 555 casualties. The catastrophe at Dieppe later influenced Allied preparations for Operation Torch and Operation Overlord.

[canadiancitizen]

There are a number of problems with this short paragraph.

Dieppe is NOT a port, it is a seaside beach town.

The operation was cancelled and then it was on again, with obvious security breaches, and the landings were not done in the dark, but in full daylight.

The beach was comprised of small rocks that made it nearly impossible for the tanks of the Three Rivers Tank Regiment to get off the beach. The seawall also was higher than the planners thought it was. The approach of the naval force was discovered at night, and the planned massive bombing raid was called off by the RAF, as they didn't want to risk aircraft on a " small show ". The naval gunfire was reduced and again it was by the British who only had a small number of troops involved, who made these decisions. The vast majority of the actual fighters were Canadians.

The death toll at Dieppe, was the highest one day loss for the Canadian Army in all of it's WW2 actions, over 900 men dead for little gain. Entire units were either killed or captured, due to a ill conceived plan that was doomed to fail.

Jim B. Toronto.

[Owen]

I was in Dieppe last summer.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-bat...niversary.html

[Franek]

Owen;
They were some amazing photos. I never saw them before

[Gerry Chester]

Hi Jim,

Without going in to the pros and cons of Operation Jubilee, some comments are necessary on your post.

Dieppe is NOT a port, it is a seaside beach town.

Said to be the prettiest of the French Channel Ports, it has been one for over 1000 years.

The beach was comprised of small rocks that made it nearly impossible for the tanks of the Three Rivers Tank Regiment to get off the beach.

It was Churchills of the Calgary Regiment that landed not tthose of the Three Rivers. Of the 27 that made ashore 15 left the beach, 12 did not - 4 had their tracks broken by the chert, 6 by shellfire, 1 by a dive-bomber and, undamaged, C Squadron's OC Major A.Glenn's 'Chief' he having assumed command of the regiment.

The seawall also was higher than the planners thought it was.

I can find no evidence that this was so, however, the 15 "Mountain Goats" (as Churchills later became known) all successfully climbed up and over the seawall on to the promenade. If the engineers, who were to blow-up the road blocks, had also been able to reach the promenade the end may have been different.

Incidentally, Churchills of 25th Tank Brigade supported 1st Canadian Corps in the breaking of the Hitler Line. Subsequently the honour of wearing the Maple Leaf was awarded to 25th Tank Brigade - today it is still worn with pride by members of the regiment in which I served.

Cheers, Gerry

.

[Franek]

Jerry & Jim;
The words on my post were not mine. This was taken off of the internet. Here is more that I found.

Operation Jubilee

Almost all concerned believed that a raid on Dieppe was now out of the question; however, though Montgomery wanted it cancelled indefinitely, Mountbatten did not. He began reorganising the raid from 11 July as Operation Jubilee. Despite not receiving Combined Chiefs of Staff authorisation, Mountbatten instructed his staff to proceed in late July. This lack of top-level go-ahead resulted in certain dislocations in the planning. For example, the failure to inform the Joint Intelligence Committee or the Inter-Service Security Board meant none of the intelligence agencies were involved, consequently the operation was mounted on information that was months out of date.

[mahross]

Originally Posted by canadiancitizen

There are a number of problems with this short paragraph.

Dieppe is NOT a port, it is a seaside beach town.

The operation was cancelled and then it was on again, with obvious security breaches, and the landings were not done in the dark, but in full daylight.

The beach was comprised of small rocks that made it nearly impossible for the tanks of the Three Rivers Tank Regiment to get off the beach. The seawall also was higher than the planners thought it was. The approach of the naval force was discovered at night, and the planned massive bombing raid was called off by the RAF, as they didn't want to risk aircraft on a " small show ". The naval gunfire was reduced and again it was by the British who only had a small number of troops involved, who made these decisions. The vast majority of the actual fighters were Canadians.

The death toll at Dieppe, was the highest one day loss for the Canadian Army in all of it's WW2 actions, over 900 men dead for little gain. Entire units were either killed or captured, due to a ill conceived plan that was doomed to fail.

Jim B. Toronto.

Not too pick but there are some egrerious points here.

It is not the Three River Regiment at Dieppe but the Calgary Tanks.

The issue of bombardment is again a misunderstood issue. At an operational level Harris was quite right to refuse the use of heavy bombers for this raid. Also when one considers the use of bombers in the NW Europe campaing and the problems there I believe it was the right decision. Imagine the heavy bombers flattening Dieppe and the problems that would cause for the advancing infantry.

In terms of the navy you have to remember the operational context that Pound was operating under. He had lost Force Z in late 41 and this really brought home the effect that air power could have on the navy. To operate heavy units in the confines of the channel when the allied air force were still fighting for air superiority in 1942 in support of what was in the context of the war a minor operation was considered not worth the risk.

Ross

[EmersonBigguns]

As a Yank, ...

I would be remiss in pointing out that although Operation Jubilee was primarily a Canadian and British affair, there were also a contingent of U.S. Army Rangers who participated. About 50 Rangers, if I remember the number correctly, of the 1st Ranger Battalion were the First US soldiers to see action on the ground against the German's in WWII. The 3 KIA became the First US ground soldiers killed in the ETO.

That being said, I fully understand that overwhelming importance of Canadian and British contributions and actions at Dieppe. No time more so then the day I visited the cemetery at Brookwood where many of the men who fell that day rest eternally.

Dieppe has always been a facsinating subject to me. And despite it popularly being considered 'a ill conceived plan that was doomed to fail', I firmly believe that the lessons learned at Dieppe were vital to the sucess on the Normandy landings.

I was at Dieppe myself a few years back. I remember standing on the beach, or more accurately what was horribly called a 'beach', looking at the terrain, and thinking just how improbable it was for success but how those brave boys went ahead and tried anyway.

I will go home this evening and peruse my photo collection to see if I have anything to add to Owen's great post. Somehow, during my visit there in 2004 I missed the Commonwealth Cemetery. An oversight I hope to make up someday.

-EB

[Owen]

EB,
Funny you should mention the Rangers.
I did mention them, here.
I gave a link to a full list of US Rangers who took part.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/all-ann...th-sunday.html

[Gerry Chester]

Hi Owen,

Jim Defelice's latest 'Rangers at Dieppe. The First Combat Action of U.S. Army Rangers in World War II' - (ISBN: 04252191216) Copyright: 2008, 309 pp. is an excellent read. Amazingly, I got my copy for just $1.00!

Cheers, Gerry