59 Squadron honour roll update

According to 'RAF Squadrons' - Jefford. 59 Squadron never had the Lancaster allocated to them, in July 1943 they were operating with the Liberator V a totally different aircraft technically. Quite possible it was the crew who were attached to 617 Squadron. Do you have the full serial number for the Lancaster above maybe we can trace its history?

Regards
Peter.

 

The loss of U 470

16 October 1943

Liberator III Z/120

F/L. B E. Peck and crew.

Op: Escort to convoy ON206.

The Liberator was airborne Reykjavik at 0908 hrs of the 16th and set course for the convoy which was met at 1153 hrs. The escort was commenced and at 1215 hrs the aircraft was over a small oil patch. At 1900 hrs the SNO requested the Liberator to carry out a Reptile Patrol and at 1918 hrs a U-boat was sighted in position 5820N-2920W. Depth-charges were seen exploding near the U-boat from an attack made by another aircraft. At 1922 hrs Z/120 attacked the U-boat with 6x250lb depth-charges and machine-gun fire. During this attack Z/120 received return fire from the U-boat. The depth-charges were seen to straddle the U-boat which was seen to be down by the stern. At 1926 hrs Z/120 attacked again, this time with 2x250lb depth-charges which straddled the U-boat which was seen to sink stern first. 15 survivors were seen in the water.
Z/120 then set course for the convoy and at 2150 hrs left ON206 and set course for base, landing back at Reykjavik at 058 hrs of the 17th.

Extract from the 120 Squadron Operations Record Book.

………………..

During this action U 470 a type VIIC submarine commanded by Oberleutnant zur See Gunter Grave was sunk.

The destruction of U 470 was officially shared by No.120 Squadron and No.59 Squadron

 

Loss of U 540

17 October 1943

Liberator I AM929 H/120

W/O. B W. Turnbull and crew.

Op: Anti-submarine Search.

The Liberator was airborne from Reykjavik at 0558 hrs and at 0939 hrs sighted convoy ON206 and began a search. At 1658 hrs the search was completed and the aircraft set a course long the convoys track, at 1727 hrs H/120 was over a large oil patch and at 1822 hrs a U-boat was sighted in position 58,22N-32,50W. As the aircraft dived to attack. Another Liberator, D/59 was sighted about to attack the U-boat. H/120 attacked the U-boat with 4x20mm cannon delaying a depth-charge attack. At 1824 hrs H/120 attacked the U-boat with 4x250lb depth-charges which straddled the U-boat which was seen to lose speed and was down by the stern. At 1826 hrs H/120 carried out a second attack with cannon and 4x250lb depth-charges. A further straddle was obtained and the U-boat was seen to break in half, the bow and the stern rising out of the water,. The U-boat then sank. 30 survivors were seen and photographed. At 1838 hrs H/120 set course for base and at 2223 hrs landed at Reykjavik.


Extract from the No.120 Squadron Operations Record Book.

…………………………….


During this action U 540 a type IXC/40 submarine commanded by Kapitanleutnant Lorenz Kasch was sunk.


The destruction of U 540 was officially shared with No.120 Squadron and No.59 Squadron.

 

P/O. Alec McCurdy. 59 Squadron. - 'The Other Few' Larry Donnelly DFM.

 

Thanks for the info Peter, appreciate it! So it was P/O McCurdy involved with U-540? I came accross his picture in that book too, but that was it, no mention of anything else that I found anyway... just that he was getting ready for take off or something to that effect...

In regards to U-540. It's odd then that on the official 59 Sqdn site they only mention four submarines...

"On October 16th 1943, 59 Squadron was credited with the destruction of U470. In addition to U470, 59 Squadron destroyed three other submarines - U844, U990 and U292."

And also on another site, which gave official U-Boat sinking tallies by Sqdn number, Im fairly sure 59 was given four... So thats why I was a little confused as to whether 120 Sqdn had been given official credit for U-540 solely.

Anyways, thanks for clearing up the mystery of 540 Peter.

Lorenzo.
.

 

Loernzo

I couldn't post my reply on the visitors message page (probably to large) so I've replied here.

I think 120 Squadron were it a better position overall to wage war against the U-boat. The reason I say this is that 120 operated with the Liberator through out the war (from June 1941) the Liberator being a VLR aircraft. 59 Squadron had at first, the Liberator on charge for about 4 months in 1942 August-December, they then converted to the B-17 which in effect was a medium range aircraft which could only hunt the U-boat closer to UK shores, where as the Liberator could range far out into the Atlantic. 59 Squadron converted back to the Liberator in April 1943. I realise that along with 120 Squadron, 59 Squadron operated from Northern Ireland which gave them the advantage of being that much further west, but 120 also had a very successful detachment in Iceland, it was from there they were involved with the sinking of 10 U-boats.

As for the total aircraft on each squadron, I’ll give aircraft on charge for 1943 which seems to be the most successful year for destroying U-boats (in the case of 120)

1 March 1943

120 Squadron.
Liberator.
Ballykelly….14 Aircraft.
Iceland. 7 Aircraft.

59 Squadron.
Fortress.
Chivenor. 10 Aircraft.


1 January 1944.

120 Squadron.
Liberator.
Iceland. 18 Aircraft.

59 Squadron.
Liberator.
Ballykelly. 14 Aircraft.

In the early days of the U-boat war 120 Squadron operated with the MkI Liberator which had no bomb aimer of even a bomb sight, the pilot lined the aircraft up on the target and released the depth-charges when he thought the time was right. Very successful they were too. Maybe they did have a better eye.

 

Thanks for the post Peter, that's given me a little bit more perspective on the topic. I am trying to put together a page (for the honour roll site) for 59 Sqdn during their time fighting the U-boats, but I wasn't sure how exactly their history fit in compared to other squadrons, so your post has given me some great insight.

I think Iceland was successful in its own way for 59 Sqdn also, in that 120 Sqdn were stationed there for just under 7 months with 10 U-boats sunk and 59 Sqdn sunk 3 U-boat in their time there (just over a month) in the convoy battle of ONS-20 and ON-206, which 120 were involved in.

The roll is coming along nicely (now at 447 personnel named) as is the rest of the site. I am hoping to have the site up and running within the next couple of months but I will keep you updated. Oh and just out of curiosity, although I am aware that there are many more personnel who flew with 59 Squadron yet to be found, what do you think the total number would be roughly... maybe 1500-2000 throughout the war? I realise it's probably an impossible number to pinpoint but it would be nice to have a rough estimation to work towards... thanks again,

Lorenzo.

 

Hello all,

Rob Stitt kindly put me onto a lady at the national archives RE. Squadron ORB's but she has asked me for reference numbers of the files I want copied... and therein lies my problem...

I only got as far as AIR 27 (for squadron ORBs) and have little idea how to get to the 59 Sqaudron ORB from there. I want the entire ORB copied for the duration of WW2 so does anyone have some suggestions on where to look this information up? Obviously the National Archives site is a good start but I keep getting lost on it...

Thanks in advance and hope you all have a safe and merry festive season.

Kind Regards

Lorenzo

 

AUSSIE, is this 59 Sqdn member (& other such attacks/sinkings) of any interest ?? ;

U 292
Type: the first VII.C/41, ocean-going.
Constructor: Vulcan, Bremen.
Armament: 14 Torpedoes, 1 x 88mm, 1 x 20mm.
Commissioned: 25.8.43. Operational: April, 1944.
Service Life: 9. Operational Life: 1. Patrols: 1.
Theatre: Atlantic. Departed: 24.5.44, Bergen; for North Atlantic.
Last Action: 27.5.44, 1.U-Flotille, outward bound; Liberator S/59
Sqd. RAF, Ballykelly, (Flt Lt V.E. Camacho) detected U 292 with
radar, and attacked with with 6 DC's, the craft sank in position
62.37N 00.57E, North East of Shetland Island, UK.
The Commander and all the crew were lost.
Commander: OL W. Schmidt 08.43-05.44.

Regards Sadsac

 

Thanks Sadsac, I have some info on 292 but I did not have information on who was captain,so thanks for that. Im pretty sure Camacho was a Canadian.

I recently found record online that an attack mentioned in the memoirs of another Canadain, F/L EE Allen dated 17-07-1943, was on U-645, the U-boat was not damaged, but the aircraft was hit and one crew member was injured by AA fire. This attack is not recorded on U-boat.net, so that was a good find.

At the moment there are two other dates I still need to source the boat involved, but I cannot recall them off the top of my head, ill look them up again and repost,

thanks again, Lorenzo.

 

Hello,

I have a question for you. We are putting together a documentary and are using some quotes from Ernest E. Allen, whom I believe is from 59 squadron. I am wondering if you know anything about him and his service. We are trying to figure out what U-boats he sank (if any).

I found out about him from this site: An R.C.A.F. Pilot's Story, 1939 - 1945, From The Memories of Ernest E. Allen

Any help would be great.

Many thanks,

Frank Gairdner

 

Hello,

I have a question for you. We are putting together a documentary and are using some quotes from Ernest E. Allen, whom I believe is from 59 squadron. I am wondering if you know anything about him and his service. We are trying to figure out what U-boats he sank (if any).

I found out about him from this site: An R.C.A.F. Pilot's Story, 1939 - 1945, From The Memories of Ernest E. Allen

Any help would be great.

Many thanks,

Frank Gairdner

Hi Frank,

I have found the following information in regards to F/L Allen. He also not officially credited to have sunk any u-boats (post war) although he and his crew(s) are recorded on several attacks.

----------------------------------------------------------

Nov 10 1942 - I may have notes on this attack at home on my computer and I shall check when I can. I could not find anything on any of the u-boat sites.


----------------------------------------------------------
June 16 1943 - U159, U415, U634 (uboat ID according to Alwyn Jay in "Endurance")

Despite receiving two certified kills at the time (according to his own memoirs) none of these Uboats are now recorded officially to have been sunk on this date. There is also no record (on Uboat.net) of an attack on this date of a 59 Squadron liberator on these boats. However, these three were recorded in formation together with two other boats just two days prior...

U 155, 14 Jun, 1943
Aircraft attack, aircraft shot down:
Polish Mosquito HJ648 (307 Sqdn RAF/B, pilot S/L S. Szablowski)
At 09.29 hours, four Mosquito aircraft (3 from 307 Polish Sqdn RAF and 1 from 410 Sqdn RCAF) attacked a group of 5 outbound boats (U-68, U-155, U-159, U-415 and U-634) in the Bay of Biscay. The leading Mosquito first strafed U-68 and then U-155, but its port engine stopped after being hit by AA fire and the aircraft was forced to make a belly landing back at the base in Predannack. A second Mosquito, piloted by F/O J. Pelka, attacked too but its guns did not fire and the remaining aircraft did not attack due to the intense AA fire.
5 crew members aboard U-155 were wounded, two of them badly. The boat returned to base together with U-68 and recieved the doctor from her for medical treatment of the wounded men.

ACCORDING TO UBOAT.NET THE ATTACK (on June 16 '43) WAS ACTUALLY ON U600:
U 600, 16 Jun, 1943
At 09.04 hours, a group of 3 outbound boats was attacked by the British Liberator Mk.V aircraft FL973 (59 Sqdn RAF/C, pilot F/O E.E. Allen, RCAF) northwest of Cape Finisterre. The aircraft dropped six depth charges on U-600 in the centre and caused minor damages, but was hit four times by AA fire from all boats. Strafing from the rear gunner killed one crewman [Matrosengefreiter Georg Laub]. As the pilot flew away to examine the damages, the boats began to dive. The aircraft dropped its remaining depth charges ahead of the swirl of the starboard boat before leaving for the base. The other two boats were most likely to be U-257 and U-615 who are recorded to have been attacked alongside U600 two days prior on the 14th June by an aircraft from 220 Sqdn.

----------------------------------------------------------

19 Jul, 1943 - U667:
At 15.42 hours, the inbound boat was attacked by the British Liberator aircraft FL977 (59 Sqdn RAF/H, pilot F/L E.E. Allen, RCAF) in the Bay of Biscay. The port wing of the aircraft was hit by AA fire in the first attack run, so they broke off the attack, circled U-667 and exchanged gunfire. The Liberator then dropped a depth charge from 3300 feet to force the boat to dive, but it overshot by 75 yards and did not explode. At 16.33 hours, the next attack was made from low level, but the two depth charges missed ahead. AA fire hit the aircraft ten times and the port waist gunner was badly wounded, so the pilot decided to head for home. (Sources: Franks/Zimmerman) I have found record of the uboat being U665 previously, but this seems to have been incorrect.

Hope this is of help to you Frank, good luck with the film and enjoy the research. If I do have some notes on the attack in Nov '42, I will post them up later, kind regards,

Lorenzo

 

Hello all, Have not posted an update for a while. The roll and site is coming along very nicely. Have been working on it very hard. I Found a copy of a book by W/C Richard "Joe" Los, who served with 59 at the start of his service before the war (WW2) until just after the Squadron returned from France. A great insight into that period of time. I am currently waiting on the arrival of my copy of 'Endurance" by Alwyn Jay, although I have already had a good look at it in the Library. Walter Lindekans (Blenheim Society?) put me onto a great pictorial site for WW2, which gave me over 100 new names and some pictures also, and even pictures of my grandfather that I have not seen before, which is great. I have also sourced many pictures of 59 Squadron aircraft (albeit sometimes serving with another Squadron) in books and online.

The site is still huge and nearly ready to go up, I am just fine tuning it. The honour roll now lists 662 people, so even that alone is quite a task to put together. I am also about to obtain copies of the 59 Squadron ORB's for the years 1941-1945, they were not able to locate 1939-1940 for me as yet. Anyways, just checking in and letting you know I am still working hard on the site.

Hope you are all well,

Lorenzo.

 

Hello Frank, do not wish to `fly a kite', but could this be your Ernest E ALLEN ???
If so note that he was 224 Sqdn (then) ??? This from MY file !!

U 256
Type: VII.C, Shot down Wellington 407 Sqd. RCAF on 23.3.44;
Shot down Liberator 224 Sqd. RAF (Fg Off E.E.Allen) on 7.6.44.
On 22.8.42 attacked by HMS Viscount (DD) and 4 Norwegian corvettes, with Hedgehog, and damaged, in the vicinity of c/v ON.122.
On 31.8.42 attacked by Whitley B/502 Sqd. RAF St. Eval (Fg.Off.E.G. Brooks) and Whitley O/51 Sqd. RAF Chivenor (Flt Lt E.O. Tandy) with DC's. U 256 was seriously damaged in this attack, and some of the crew were picked up by U 348.

U 625 Type: VII.C,
In a Leigh light attack on 2.1.44, by Liberator C/224 Sqd. RAF (Fg Off E.E. Allen), the Commander gave the order to dive, then countermanded his order; it was then noticed that water was entering the craft so the
Commander and a seaman closed the control tower hatch. The Commander
(KL H. Benker) and a seaman were washed overboard as the craft
submerged. Later the craft resurfaced, the seaman was rescued, but
not KL Benker; OL Sureth assumed command.
Commanders: KL H. Benker OL K. Sureth OL S. Straub

`Booombs-a-Daisy' Sadsac

 

PETER, FRANK, LORENZO, Well, I have now had a `look-thro' this posting !!
Sorry chaps I cannot find any reference re EE ALLEN for 59 sqdn attacks as mentioned. `I flatter myself (& my info'ers') that MY files are `mostly correct' !!
Will now chase up further.
"Stand-by to have me shot down in flames if I am wrong"

59 Sqdn ORB PRO No. AIR 27 / 555 Jan 41 - Dec. 43
556 Jan - Dec 1944
557 Jan - Dec 1845
APPENDICES 560 Jan 1940 - May 1946
561 Aug 1942 - Sept 1943

Sadsac

 

ALL, find here that which I have on 59 Sqdn attacks / sinkings U-boats ;

Flt Kerrigan Ballykelly U 470
FOff Loney BK U 470
FLt Knowles BK U 540
FOff Moran Aldergrove U 552
FOff Loney BK U 621
FOff Penning BK U 716
FOff Thomas BK U 844
SdLdr Sisson NK U 990

Not by any means definative, but `s'wat I have' ! May be of help to `someone'.
Have dates etc. if required.

Sadsac

 

U 470 shared with 120 Squadron 16 October 1943.
Liberator E/120, Liberator Z/120 & Liberator C/59.

U 540 Shared with 120 Squadron 17 October 1943.
Liberator H/120 & Liberator D/59.

Peter

 

PETER, FRANK, LORENZO, Well, I have now had a `look-thro' this posting !!
Sorry chaps I cannot find any reference re EE ALLEN for 59 sqdn attacks as mentioned. `I flatter myself (& my info'ers') that MY files are `mostly correct' !!
Will now chase up further.
"Stand-by to have me shot down in flames if I am wrong"

59 Sqdn ORB PRO No. AIR 27 / 555 Jan 41 - Dec. 43
556 Jan - Dec 1944
557 Jan - Dec 1845
APPENDICES 560 Jan 1940 - May 1946
561 Aug 1942 - Sept 1943

Sadsac

Hi thanks for the post - yes they air the numbers for the squadron ORB, there is also 554 which is for the whole period from 1939-1941. I have them on an order standby, just waiting for some funds to clear.

 

ALL, find here that which I have on 59 Sqdn attacks / sinkings U-boats ;

Flt Kerrigan Ballykelly U 470
FOff Loney BK U 470
FLt Knowles BK U 540
FOff Moran Aldergrove U 552
FOff Loney BK U 621
FOff Penning BK U 716
FOff Thomas BK U 844
SdLdr Sisson NK U 990

Not by any means definative, but `s'wat I have' ! May be of help to `someone'.
Have dates etc. if required.

Sadsac

Thanks for this post, Wes Loney is credited (shared) for the sinking of U470 (which occurred at approx 1700 hrs) i believe on the 16th of oct 1943. but I have found reports of another 59 squadron plane attacking it earlier in the day which may have be F/L Kerrigan, which is a name I dont have which is superb! Loney also received a probable kill at the time for U377 which many many years later he discovered was actually an attack on U621 (Endurance-Alwyn Jay). the Uboat was severely damaged in this attack and managed to crawl back to port.

U540 (shared 59 and 120 Sqn). In both (U470-540) attacks the 59 Sqn aircraft attacked first and the 120 Sqn aircraft finished the job (so to speak)...

The attacks of Moran and Penning (another new name) I dont believe i have record of, so many thanks. Info from Uboat.net for U716 is the following... I have spent hours on this site, but nothing came up for Moran (for me before) although he is listed!

PENNING:
23 Apr, 1945
The U-716 was depth charged in the Arctic Sea by a hunter-killer group. Due to the damage incurred the boat had to return to base.
1 recorded attack on this boat.



MORAN:
27 May, 1943
A British B-24 Liberator aircraft (Sqdn 59, pilot H.A.L. Moran) attacked the boat in two runs dropping a total of 8 depth charges causing severe damages. The boat survived and managed to reach port on June 13. (Sources: Blair, vol 2, page 340)
7 recorded attacks on this boat.



U990: I had the aircraft but not the pilot, many thanks again. Also during this attack F/S Playford attacked U990 in 59/L:


other ones I have are: I think I got the Uboat numbers for kelvin and Tiller from "Endurance - Alwyn Jay)

U-441: by F/O HD Kelvin and crew (not sunk)
U-292: by F/L VE Camacho (sunk) named in previous post.
U-263: by F/L F.G Tiller and crew (not sunk)
U-223: by F/O N Barson and crew (not sunk)


I do have these records but no Uboats:

06.02.1943 (P/O SG DuPlooy of Sth Africa and crew)

and two other attacks on these dates 20/07/1944, 10/07/1943 also the attack on the 10/10/1942 by EE Allan and crew is still with Uboat unconfirmed.

Thanks heaps for this, much appreciated.

Lorenzo.

 

Hello Frank, do not wish to `fly a kite', but could this be your Ernest E ALLEN ???
If so note that he was 224 Sqdn (then) ??? This from MY file !!

U 256
Type: VII.C, Shot down Wellington 407 Sqd. RCAF on 23.3.44;
Shot down Liberator 224 Sqd. RAF (Fg Off E.E.Allen) on 7.6.44.
On 22.8.42 attacked by HMS Viscount (DD) and 4 Norwegian corvettes, with Hedgehog, and damaged, in the vicinity of c/v ON.122.
On 31.8.42 attacked by Whitley B/502 Sqd. RAF St. Eval (Fg.Off.E.G. Brooks) and Whitley O/51 Sqd. RAF Chivenor (Flt Lt E.O. Tandy) with DC's. U 256 was seriously damaged in this attack, and some of the crew were picked up by U 348.

U 625 Type: VII.C,
In a Leigh light attack on 2.1.44, by Liberator C/224 Sqd. RAF (Fg Off E.E. Allen), the Commander gave the order to dive, then countermanded his order; it was then noticed that water was entering the craft so the
Commander and a seaman closed the control tower hatch. The Commander
(KL H. Benker) and a seaman were washed overboard as the craft
submerged. Later the craft resurfaced, the seaman was rescued, but
not KL Benker; OL Sureth assumed command.
Commanders: KL H. Benker OL K. Sureth OL S. Straub

`Booombs-a-Daisy' Sadsac

Thanks for this post, and a very interesting "quinky dink"...

59 Squadron E.Allen was F/L Ernest E Allen DFC... (E.E Allen)

224 Sqn E.Allen was F/O Ethan Allen DFC... (E.Allen) He was recorded as MIA on the date of the above attack and later presumed KIA and is remembered on the Runnymede Memorial on panel 244.

both men were Canadian... Strangely there is no record of the 59 Sqn E.E Allen on the Canadian Virtual War Memorial...