Our TWM born 10. april 1889 in Preston. And maybe a good idea to merge these two threads. Posted this one in Top Secret because as an infantery officer I always thought the intel guys to be of another breed I find it strange that his time and place of death seems to be difficult to verify. No searchable official database in the UK? Full name and date of birth probably should be unike to this one person? Found one TWM in FIFE too. On Findagrave.com. Year of Death 1982. No year of birth. But this might be a long shot. Probably many TWM in the UK? Regards Svein Korsvold
Some information from the Archives regarding Mr. Murray/Norwegian resistance and the results of their work. Regards Svein Korsvold
You were correct the first time - it is 908377. Looking at your attachment he may have been involved in the Shetland Bus SOE. If so it is unlikely he will have any information in a CRS10, however, that will need to be checked out. Regards Hugh
Svein - we have been searching the UK databases for him, how else do you think we have found out what we have found, if his details are not in the database we (or anyone) cannot retrieve them. Have you thought its possible he died outside of the UK?, or rather outside England, Wales & Northern Ireland which is as far as I can personally check. The Intel document you have attached talks about a 'Mr' Murray - no military rank, no initials TD
All England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 results for Thomas Murray - but born in 1889 Only those who died after WW2 Thomas Murray abt 1889 Dec 1948 Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Murray abt 1889 Sep 1963 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding Thomas Murray abt 1889 Dec 1966 Bootle Lancashire Thomas Murray abt 1889 Dec 1967 Halifax Yorkshire West Riding Thomas Murray 1889 Jun 1970 Bridgend Glamorganshire Thomas Murray 1889 Jun 1976 Rochdale Greater Manchester Thmas Murray abt 1889 Sep 1921 Leeds Yorkshire West Riding Thoams Murray abt 1889 Mar 1958 St Neots Huntingdonshire Take your pick TD
Hi! He was not involved in The Shetland bus. Just a one way ticket before the Shetland bus was organized. He escaped to England on the Fishing vessel Sjøglimt in late June/early Juli together with some officers from the British convoi Office in Bergen and families. I have an old letter from the skipper confirming Murray was aboard. So the intel reports regarding Murray refers to TWM. No doubt about that. Regards Svein Korsvold
Thank you! I have also considered the possibility he died in another country. In Norway we have something called "Folkeregisteret". If you have access you can search on date of birth, full name etc. I suspect 10. april 1889 and Thomas William Murray together to be unike. Agree? Any such search options available for British authorities? Regards Svein Korsvold
Svein TWM and 10 April 1889 are unique - however they are only unique in respect of searching for his death details IF they were used at the time of his death, OR the person recording his death knew them. It is possible that he was living outside England, Wales and Northern Ireland under an assumed name having provided the local authorities with incorrect information for his date of birth. If he was a member of the Intelligence Corps then he would have the knowledge, training and ability to lose himself anywhere in the world As in the previous thread on this man there are some details regarding his death that appear on some of the family trees created on Ancestry. How accurate these are I have no idea, but I have copied them again below for your information: England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name Thomas Murray Birth Date abt 1889 Date of Registration Dec 1948 Age at Death 59 Registration district Birmingham Inferred County Warwickshire Volume 9c Page 396 As previously mentioned if you obtain a copy of this you will find who registered the death, which can sometimes be a family member which would help validate who it was. Copies can be obtained from the Registrars Office in Birmingham, link here - Order a copy of a death certificate | Birmingham City Council TD
Just a quick update. According to several Sources with spesific knowledge regarding British intelligence the posting in The London Gazette most likely is our man. A qualified guess is MI6. Will try to send them a request to see what happens. Svein
As he seems to have been an employee of Marconi then you may need to trawl through - Marconi Archive - there may be something in them maybe not regarding him directly but perhaps where he was, ships he was on etc TD edited to add: There is for example - B.5 Staff records, 1897-1999 B.5.1 Personnel registers, 1897-1961
Thank you! Contacted them yesterday. Got a swift response: Regarding Thomas William Murray, the Marconi Archives holds three references. MS. Marconi 2040 – A staff salary book stating his employment started on the 11 March 1912 and ended with his desertion in 1920. Small details include wage and position within the company. ( 1 Side ) MS. Marconi 2139 - Company staff card which gives slightly different dates to the above. He joined in 1911 and left in 1919 and then was reemployed from 1946-1949. This records that he died in 1949. ( 2 Sides ) MS. Marconi 1992 – Staff book containing similar information to first item, it mentions dates of employment for his return to the company. ( 1 Side ) Have ordered the relevant pages. Now we probably have his time and place of death. Also got some old letters written by someone Close to him in Bergen 1940. Thought he was Secret Service. Awaiting the documents from the Torrio case in New York 1939. The witness list will maybe reveal which agency employed him. Regards Svein Korsvold
England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Thomas W Murray Birth Date: abt 1889 Date of Registration: Jun 1949 Age at Death: 60 Registration district: Leeds Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding Volume: 2c Page: 438 Order copy certificates TD
Thank you TD! You have been very helpful! Probably more information on his death inn the Marconi Archives. A qualified guess from You? Have we finally got him?
As previously said - it will be interesting to see what information is on the death certificate. You can now also apply for his WW2 service record. Not really into guess's TD
Just a quick update. Found TWM and his statement in the Torrio trial mentioned in a lot of newspapers from 1939. Spy, undercover, federal government, colorful etc. Undercover for 10-15 years it seems! I have requested the witness list etc . Will be interesting to know what agency employed him!
Another update. Progress on his 1930s occupation: In a book I find a referance to an old US men`s Magazine from 1940 With the story: “Ace Government Undercover Man” Thomas W. Murray, who “Was a Coast Guard Spy. Have sent a request to US Coast Guard history Office for more information. Trying to get hold of True: A man`s Magazine from June 1940. Must smile! An undercover agent who loved publicity! Svein
INTELLIGENCE CORPS. The undermentioned to be 2nd Lts.: — 30th Mar. 1941: — * . George LEFOGLOU (191286). 12th June 1941: — Philip George. Doyne ADAMS (202042), without Army pay and allces. 24th June 1941: — Thomas William MURRAY (202114), without Army pay and allces. 26th June 1941: — George TSOUCAS (200230). 27th June 1941: — Maroun ARAB (202044), without Army pay and allces. ' 2oth Aug. 1941:— ' Edward James Patrick CUSSEN (202484), without Army pay and allces. 27th Aug. 1941: — W.O. Cl. II .Rawson Preston DUKE (202151) Have verified most of Thomas William Murray`s amazing undercover work in the 1930s. More on that later. Now his WW2 service is the only remaining mystery. Was wondering if any of the other names ring a bell? Svein