Intelligence Corps officer

Discussion in 'Top Secret' started by Rundtinden, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Our TWM born 10. april 1889 in Preston. And maybe a good idea to merge these two threads. Posted this one in Top Secret because as an infantery officer I always thought the intel guys to be of another breed ;) I find it strange that his time and place of death seems to be difficult to verify. No searchable official database in the UK? Full name and date of birth probably should be unike to this one person?
    Found one TWM in FIFE too. On Findagrave.com. Year of Death 1982. No year of birth. But this might be a long shot. Probably many TWM in the UK?
    Regards
    Svein Korsvold
     
  2. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Some information from the Archives regarding Mr. Murray/Norwegian resistance and the results of their work.
    Regards
    Svein Korsvold
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    You were correct the first time - it is 908377.

    Looking at your attachment he may have been involved in the Shetland Bus SOE. If so it is unlikely he will have any information in a CRS10, however, that will need to be checked out.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Svein - we have been searching the UK databases for him, how else do you think we have found out what we have found, if his details are not in the database we (or anyone) cannot retrieve them. Have you thought its possible he died outside of the UK?, or rather outside England, Wales & Northern Ireland which is as far as I can personally check.

    The Intel document you have attached talks about a 'Mr' Murray - no military rank, no initials

    TD
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    All England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 results for Thomas Murray - but born in 1889

    Only those who died after WW2

    Thomas Murray
    abt 1889 Dec 1948 Birmingham Warwickshire

    Thomas Murray
    abt 1889 Sep 1963 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

    Thomas Murray
    abt 1889 Dec 1966 Bootle Lancashire

    Thomas Murray
    abt 1889 Dec 1967 Halifax Yorkshire West Riding

    Thomas Murray
    1889 Jun 1970 Bridgend Glamorganshire

    Thomas Murray
    1889 Jun 1976 Rochdale Greater Manchester

    Thmas Murray
    abt 1889 Sep 1921 Leeds Yorkshire West Riding

    Thoams Murray
    abt 1889 Mar 1958 St Neots Huntingdonshire

    Take your pick
    TD
     
  6. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Hi!
    He was not involved in The Shetland bus. Just a one way ticket before the Shetland bus was organized. He escaped to England on the Fishing vessel Sjøglimt in late June/early Juli together with some officers from the British convoi Office in Bergen and families. I have an old letter from the skipper confirming Murray was aboard. So the intel reports regarding Murray refers to TWM. No doubt about that.
    Regards
    Svein Korsvold
     
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  7. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Thank you!
    I have also considered the possibility he died in another country. In Norway we have something called "Folkeregisteret". If you have access you can search on date of birth, full name etc. I suspect 10. april 1889 and Thomas William Murray together to be unike. Agree? Any such search options available for British authorities?
    Regards
    Svein Korsvold
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Svein

    TWM and 10 April 1889 are unique - however they are only unique in respect of searching for his death details IF they were used at the time of his death, OR the person recording his death knew them. It is possible that he was living outside England, Wales and Northern Ireland under an assumed name having provided the local authorities with incorrect information for his date of birth.
    If he was a member of the Intelligence Corps then he would have the knowledge, training and ability to lose himself anywhere in the world

    As in the previous thread on this man there are some details regarding his death that appear on some of the family trees created on Ancestry. How accurate these are I have no idea, but I have copied them again below for your information:
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name Thomas Murray
    Birth Date abt 1889
    Date of Registration Dec 1948
    Age at Death 59
    Registration district Birmingham
    Inferred County Warwickshire
    Volume 9c
    Page 396

    As previously mentioned if you obtain a copy of this you will find who registered the death, which can sometimes be a family member which would help validate who it was. Copies can be obtained from the Registrars Office in Birmingham, link here - Order a copy of a death certificate | Birmingham City Council

    TD
     
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  9. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Thank you! Will do. Determined to find him!
     
  10. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Just a quick update. According to several Sources with spesific knowledge regarding British intelligence the posting in The London Gazette most likely is our man. A qualified guess is MI6. Will try to send them a request to see what happens.
    Svein
     
  11. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    As he seems to have been an employee of Marconi then you may need to trawl through - Marconi Archive - there may be something in them maybe not regarding him directly but perhaps where he was, ships he was on etc

    TD

    edited to add:
    There is for example -
    B.5 Staff records, 1897-1999

    B.5.1 Personnel registers, 1897-1961
     
  13. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Thank you!
    Contacted them yesterday. Got a swift response:

    Regarding Thomas William Murray, the Marconi Archives holds three references.

    MS. Marconi 2040 – A staff salary book stating his employment started on the 11 March 1912 and ended with his desertion in 1920. Small details include wage and position within the company. ( 1 Side )

    MS. Marconi 2139 - Company staff card which gives slightly different dates to the above. He joined in 1911 and left in 1919 and then was reemployed from 1946-1949. This records that he died in 1949. ( 2 Sides )

    MS. Marconi 1992 – Staff book containing similar information to first item, it mentions dates of employment for his return to the company. ( 1 Side )

    Have ordered the relevant pages.
    Now we probably have his time and place of death.
    Also got some old letters written by someone Close to him in Bergen 1940. Thought he was Secret Service.
    Awaiting the documents from the Torrio case in New York 1939. The witness list will maybe reveal which agency employed him.

    Regards
    Svein Korsvold
     
  14. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Thomas W. Murray 60years old in June 1949. Not very old when he died. 1949D2-M-0108.jpg
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Thomas W Murray
    Birth Date: abt 1889
    Date of Registration: Jun 1949
    Age at Death: 60
    Registration district: Leeds
    Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
    Volume: 2c
    Page: 438

    Order copy certificates
    TD
     
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  16. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Thank you TD! You have been very helpful!
    Probably more information on his death inn the Marconi Archives. A qualified guess from You? Have we finally got him?
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    As previously said - it will be interesting to see what information is on the death certificate. You can now also apply for his WW2 service record. Not really into guess's

    TD
     
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  18. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Just a quick update.
    Found TWM and his statement in the Torrio trial mentioned in a lot of newspapers from 1939. Spy, undercover, federal government, colorful etc. Undercover for 10-15 years it seems! I have requested the witness list etc . Will be interesting to know what agency employed him!
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    Another update. Progress on his 1930s occupation:
    In a book I find a referance to an old US men`s Magazine from 1940 With the story: “Ace Government Undercover Man” Thomas W. Murray, who “Was a Coast Guard Spy. Have sent a request to US Coast Guard history Office for more information.
    Trying to get hold of True: A man`s Magazine from June 1940.
    Must smile! An undercover agent who loved publicity!

    Svein
     
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  20. Rundtinden

    Rundtinden Member

    INTELLIGENCE CORPS. The undermentioned to be 2nd Lts.: — 30th Mar. 1941: — * . George LEFOGLOU (191286). 12th June 1941: — Philip George. Doyne ADAMS (202042), without Army pay and allces. 24th June 1941: — Thomas William MURRAY (202114), without Army pay and allces. 26th June 1941: — George TSOUCAS (200230). 27th June 1941: — Maroun ARAB (202044), without Army pay and allces. ' 2oth Aug. 1941:— ' Edward James Patrick CUSSEN (202484), without Army pay and allces. 27th Aug. 1941: — W.O. Cl. II .Rawson Preston DUKE (202151)

    Have verified most of Thomas William Murray`s amazing undercover work in the 1930s. More on that later. Now his WW2 service is the only remaining mystery. Was wondering if any of the other names ring a bell?
    Svein
     

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