Tim's bought a Firefly. Research help needed.

My reading of the first bit is that 25 Armd Del Regt was formed from 21 CAR - plausible given the post-war date. It might be worth asking if anyone has their history to see what happened at that time. It could be that they were the rump that didposed of their brigade's vehicles, or something like that.

 

AB 413 was the Armoured Vehicle log book (AB412 was used for 'B' vehicles)

 

http://steel-chariots.22web.org/elgins.htm

 

Thanks for the info...

Now to find a copy of an AB 413 to know what data this book contained - It would be great to think some are still in the Canadian Archives somewhere... but I suspect long since gone.

Am going to have a look at the 264 Spec Del Sqn RAC war diary in the hope there may be something useful

Cheers

Tim

 

Rob van den Brink's WD Norton website has a scan of an AB412(M) - the softskin (Motorcycle) equivalent and possibly further useful info.

http://www.wdnorton.nl/Individual_motorcycle_history.htm

Canada seems, generally to have been a little better in preserving info than the British but it looks to me as if the record card that you have shown indicates that the AB413 and other documents were handed over with the vehicles.

If Bovington has nothing then sadly they've probably disappeared into a rubbish skip along with all the B vehicle records.

 

Have emailed Bovington to see what they have.

Thanks

Tim

 

Next challenge.

I've not been able to get the right original commander's cupola - the original one was removed some time ago.

However, I have been able to acquire a British All Round Vision cupola - I know these were originally introduced for the Cromwell and others and then added to the Sherman with an adapter plate (I have the plate too). I have also seen a couple of WW2 vintage pictures of Shermans with these fitted... one of which on a Polish Firefly.

Can anyone please advise when these were fitted to Shermans in British Service? Whilst not historically correct for my tank, would it be acceptable to restore it with this fitting, or not accurate at all?

Many thanks

Tim

 

chuck it on mate and worry about picking the correct one up at a later date, the periscopes are common and sell for around £10. I have a few spare if you need them

 

I would suggest restoring it to whatever it was in service. Then I would try and find out the men who served in it, and if any of them still survive. At the very least I'd have a little gallery on the vehicle with their names and photos. If you can find any still alive and get their stories and perhaps photos they took pendant la guerre, that would be even better, and would make the vehicle so much more "real" for those who might see it in the future. Having found out what unit it was with and when, you could also review the movie films in public archives or elsewhere that might show your tank, if you can ID if from the painted on numbers.

 

"Over Here"... thanks for the suggestions.

Alas, unless someone turns up a specific reference to the vehicle in an archive, or a nice photo, the chance of finding out who served in the vehicle is significantly harder than tracking down which unit it served with... and tracking the vehicle to a unit is often harder than finding a needle in a haystack!

As said before, I am lucky that the British Census number was still visible on the outside of the vehicle and that the vehicle had been researched by others, with a hit in the Canadian War archive indicating it was struck off service with 21st Canadian Armoured in June 1945... alas other than this receipt there is nothing else to indicate where it may have been, let alone who the crew could have been.

I've read through the 21st CAR diaries and paperwork - as much as is online - and have nothing new, have been through the Armoured Delivery Regt docs too and nothing specific there either... from the details for these units I can make an educated guess on what probably happened to the vehicle after it was struck off... but in action... only a rough idea based on the regiment's movements... and who where etc before than between arrival in the UK and the end of the war... just guess work.

But... will keep lifting stones to see what crawls out.

Cheers

Tim

 

Perhaps a request for info through the Canadian Legion magazine would help? One would think a name like "Gaucho" would stick in veteran's memories.

 

On the restoration/research front...

Vehicle is stripped down, working out what is missing, researching history etc... rebuild planned to start 2017... hope to get some more photos online soon, items on other survivors.

I have pulled together a website for this, early days, not a lot to report really at the moment - easier to put all updates in one place than try to drop them onto the numerous forums I belong to.

Sherman Firefly (VC) – Restoration of M4A4 s/n 4873

Comments and additional material welcome please.

Happy New Year.

Tim

 

A recent pic...

Rear by Packhow75 posted Sep 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM

Work to rebuild planned to start Sept 2017.

 

Wanted... Battery Selector Unit - Used to allow the wireless operator to switch between vehicle batteries when operating the Wireless (Sherman is 24v, Wireless is 12v).

These were used in the Firefly and the Sexton - am unsure about other vehicles.

 

Due to ease and reach... have decided to make the most of Facebook to update the world...

https://www.facebook.com/pg/T289477

Tim

 

Almost correct... following that theme... this website suggests that 25th Canadian Armoured Delivery Regt was formed from the Elgin Regt.

Home

Quote from the website - incase the source vanishes as stuff does on the web.

"On May 24, 1940 the Elgin Regiment (the Elgins) was mobilized and recruitment began in early June, 1940. In one month the entire 962-man wartime strength for the battalion was achieved. After extensive training, the Elgins moved to Toronto in 1941 where they were placed in the 12th Brigade.

The Regiment was converted to armour and redesignated as the 25th Armour Regiment on January 26, 1942 and was finally shipped overseas to the United Kingdom in the fall of that year.

In January 1943, the Regiment was again reorganized and the Elgins became the 1st Tank Delivery Regiment (eventually becoming the 25th Canadian Tank Delivery Regiment) and were tasked with delivering tanks to Canadian Armoured regiments engaged in operations in forward areas. The Regiment was divided into several squadrons each attached to different Divisions of the Canadian Army. The Elgins supported these armoured regiments in Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland and into Germany."

So, I think worth a dive into this unit to see what records exist.

Tim

 

Nifty stuff!!

If you need someone to look up particular files at Library and Archives Canada... I don't want to overextend myself but I'm there every couple of months.

 

Thanks for the kind offer.

I will take a look at the online catalogue to see if there is anything specific.

That said... a copy of GGFG War Diary for March 44 to June 45 would be excellent.

The September one is here... but am unsure how to download all of it... and is very onerous to review page by page online or copy by page.

War diaries : T-12723 - Héritage

Advice on how to obtain the lot as a download would be appreciated.

Cheers

Tim

 

Hi Tim,

That's kind of crazy, isn't it? It's all online, but at 1575 images it would be a horrible job to save each separate image. But if there are that many pages to a war diary, getting March 44-June 45 would be colossal, beyond my capabilities I think!!

You've probably got this sorted out, but I have been doing some reading about the Canadian Armoured Corps recently (have the great illustrated history out from the library) and there was also a discussion of the Elgins on missing-lynx recently. So far as I know, the Elgins would have preserved their name in brackets, like "The 25th Canadian Tank Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment)". You can see that here: 31 Combat Engineer Regiment (The Elgins) - Wikipedia

Chris