Family Soldiers: 1/4th Essex (WW2) & 25 Field Regiment R.A.(Post-War)

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Charley Fortnum, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Small addition to the miscellaneous folder:

    Image%201.JPG

    In latter days:

    B17%20The%20Essex%20Regiment.Stratford%20MPD%201956.JPG

    'The Essex Regiment'

    Engine named at Romford Exhibition of locomotives and rolling stock. Held June 6th & 7th 1936, in goods yard by passenger station. Since fitted with G.E.R. type of tender, now painted "Black" without lining Feb - March 1942.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    No British contingent, but a few minutes of good footage of 4th Indian Division returning home in 1946:

    I. "FIGHTING FOURTH WELCOMED HOME". At Karachi, Fourth Division return home after over six years of active service in the Mediterranean theatre.

    INDIAN NEWS PARADE NO 155 (1/3/1946) | colonialfilm
     
  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    There are a few videos are up on Youtube that feature footage filmed onboard/of Monarch of Bermuda in the 1930s:


    Good footage onboard.

    Good footage onboard.

    Some exterior in port.

    Worst music, best exterior shots at sea!
     
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  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I only have circumstantial pointers and no definitive proof, but it looks likely that Pte. Thomas John Everett was made batman to Lt. W.A. Matthews [164775] (later Major) who was himself appointed the battalion Brigade Liaison Officer on March 12th, shortly before the commencement of the Third Battle at Cassino.

    Could anybody hazard a sketch as to the the Brigade L.O.'s probable location/duties? The implication from the Brigade (5th Ind Inf) diary is that he was based with them and not the battalion, but it isn't clear.

    I presume he was something more than just a commissioned postman.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Am returning to do a little more digging on Gnr Newman now. I've managed to establish that he served with 54 (Maharajahpore) bty, 25 Field Regiment R.A. and that that battery alone was initially detached from the regiment without its guns and on active service as 'infantillery' in Malaya from September 1950 until July 51. In the latter stage of this period at least, the battery was operating 25 pounders with 3 Commando Brigade, but previous to that had been supporting a list of other units and formations.

    While searching around online, I turned up this nice little piece of contemporary propaganda:



    Has anybody here any experience with post-ww2 unit diaries?

    I want to take a look at the following:

    Reference: WO 305/57
    Description: 25 Field Regiment
    Date: 1950 Apr - 1956 Apr

    But I'd like some rough indication of size and content. Does anybody have anything comparable?

    Edit
    It gets better: 54bty kept their own War Diary for the duration of their separation from the rest of the regiment (the other two batteries remained in Hong Kong). I've requested a copy of the following with high hopes:

    Reference: WO 305/98
    Description: 54 (Maharajpore) Field Battery
    Date: 1950 Oct - 1951 July
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Apparently Ian Hook curator of the Essex Regiment Museum has moved onto another museum post.
    Does anybody have any information about his replacement?

    Essex Regiment (@EssexReg) | Twitter
     
  7. Huggie

    Huggie New Member

    What excellent work Charley in keeping this thread alive. I too had a grandfather who was in the Essex Regiment. I'm trying to find out more about what he got up to in the war, unfortunately all his information and documents were lost a long time ago.

    From what I gather he was in Italy at Cassino along with seeing action in Africa. I guess this puts him in the 1/4th but I remember hearing stories as a child from him about being a paratrooper. Which seems to suggest he might of been part of the 8th, 9th or 10th battalions. Does anyone know if either of these saw combat in Italy as he was definitely there.

    He also lied about his age to serve like many of his friends did at the time, which I recall him telling me. His name was Derek Robinson, I've found a few D.Robinson's in some searches and in the 'Regt Diary' posted on here, but sadly I don't think any are him.

    I wish I understood the significance and took the time to talk to him about his experiences and time in ww2, but I was too young then to understand. But I've heard from family members he very rarely and reluctantly spoke about his time served and mostly kept it to himself.

    If anyone has anything to add I would be most grateful.

    Cheers!
     
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  8. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Thanks for the kind words. I do sometimes wonder whether this thread is of much interest to others, but the fact that the view count continues to tick upwards and that I have received messages from non-posting readers here both suggest that it does have a purpose to serve--apologies for regular readers who no doubt groan to see it repeatedly re-surface in 'new posts'.

    Cassino suggests 1/4th, but Essex in 'Italy' and Africa makes 1/5th a possibility, too. There is always the chance that--for a host of reasons--he might have moved between battalions: 1st and 2/5th, of course, were also in North Africa at various earlier stages of the war.

    As to paratroopers, the 10th Essex became the 9th Bn The Parachute Regiment at the end of '42, but they did their fighting in N.W. Europe, I believe.

    I'm a little busy today and tomorrow, but on Sunday I'll do some digging through my materials for a Derek Robinson that might fit the bill; meanwhile, I would strongly urge you to apply for his service records. Once you have his unit(s) for certain, there's a huge amount of information available, and if he does turn out to be a 1/4th Essex man I can supply a wealth of material.

    Edit: I have found a single Private Robinson in C-Coy in Sept 1943. The name, however is not uncommon and I have no initial--I'll do some more digging later.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  9. Huggie

    Huggie New Member

    Thank you so much for looking for me. What would be the best way to get his service records, as he lied about his age and we don't have his service number.

    I believe he also told us he fought along side the Polish and Gurkha's, no idea if this helps at all.

    Please do let me know if you find anything to help :)
     
  10. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Polish and Gurkhas? Almost certainly at Cassino with 1/4th Essex, which means I want to learn all i can about your grandfather!

    Application details here:
    Request records of deceased service personnel - GOV.UK

    Give them as much information as possible and they'll likely find him; I should just put his real date of birth..
    Costs thirty pounds unless your grandmother is sill alive to apply.

    The video here is a good snapshot of the 4th Essex at Cassino:
    Family Soldiers [1/4th Essex & 25 Field Regiment R.A.]
     
  11. Huggie

    Huggie New Member

    I'll get that sent off asap. We have nothing at all from his time fighting. Just memories and stories he left behind, would be amazing to find a random picture of him somewhere. I guess the chances of that are pretty slim though.

    On the other hand we do have his fathers serivce book from WW1. Typical!
     
  12. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    If you can get the information, I might turn up a picture. ;)
    I started with nothing at all and have turned up several of my grandfather by pure fluke and placed him down to platoon level.
    Fingers crossed.
     
  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    It's been a good week. Without really trying, I've come across two more families of former 1/4th Essex men and made contact. The total now is about ten including my grandfather's company commander's and C/O's sons--both friendly and helpful gentlemen.

    Heads up here for a new publication that has just come out:
    __________________________________________________

    Twelve Days in the Battle for Monte Cassino
    by Peter Bunnett
    An eyewitness account from the log of Bombardier Ronald Patrick Bunnett of the Royal Artillery, March 1944

    IN THIS ILLUMINATING historical account, Peter Bunnett has used as a centrepiece the wartime journal of his father, Ronald Patrick Bunnett (known as ‘Pat’ to family and friends) who, whilst serving with the 4th Indian Division during World War Two as an artillery spotter, was an eyewitness to the famous battle for Monte Cassino.

    Pat’s log covers a 12-day period in March 1944 during the crucial third of four hard-fought battles to remove German forces from the mountain-top monastery which occupied a commanding position above the road to Rome, 80 miles to the North, thus impeding the progress of the Allied invasion force.

    The nature of the terrain and the sturdiness of the monastery’s construction made it easier to defend than attack and as a result the Allied commanders were obliged to throw everything they had at it. In spite of receiving a terrible pounding from artillery and air strikes the tenacious German defenders held out far longer than seemed possible and casualties were heavy on both sides.

    Pat’s minute-by-minute account of the fighting, viewed from his spotter’s position, adds a sense of immediacy to the events described, as if his readers were sat alongside him, witnessing the scene for themselves as the twelve days of his journal unfold. The battle is truly bought to life and we gain an appreciation of the challenging conditions and fierce fighting experienced by the soldiers who were there.

    Peter Bunnett expands on the 12 days covered by his father’s journal with numerous maps and photographs and to place the events in context he provides details of Pat’s civilian life before the war, his military experiences in North Africa, Greece and Sicily prior to the Battle of Monte Cassino, and his activities afterwards, culminating in a long rail journey home to England at the end of the war.

    Format large format softback | 205 x 290 mm | 116 pages
    content text plus monochrme and colour photos, maps and illustrations
    genre eyewitness account / biography
    themes Royal Artillery | World War Two Italian campaign | Battle of Monte Cassino
    time period World War Two 1939-45

    Twelve Days in the Battle for Monte Cassino by Peter Bunnett

    I've just ordered a copy of this, but I can't figure out from the available information what unit he must have been with. 1, 11 & 31 Field Regiments were with 4th Indian Div at Cassino along with 149th Anti-Tank Regiment R.A. & 57th Light A.A. Regiment R.A. (he could also, I suppose, have been with the CRA at Divisional HQ). The puzzling part however is his 'experiences in [...] Greece and Sicily prior to the battle. 4th Indian Div was not in Sicily, and the move to Greece came in late '44, well after the battles at Cassino. This suggests that either the publisher's blurb is incorrect or he transferred from another unit. Regardless, I'm extremely keen to read this.

    Do the publisher a favour by buying direct instead of through Amazon. I've never been aware of them before, but from their inventory they have some good stuff. Temptation...
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
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  14. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Huggie.

    If he served alongside Poles and Gurkhas then he was definitely at Cassino. His Brigade included 1/9 Gurkha Rifles and the Poles turned up in Apr 44 for the Fourth Battle and were up on Snakeshead a Ridge whilst a shattered 4 Indian Division - to which 1/4 Essex belonged, were on their right flank.

    If you are interested, I am taking a group of civilians to Cassino on 8-11 Jun 17 and will be looking in detail at the four battles. 1/4 Essex were heavily involved in the Second and Third Battles so there is a lot to see and take in. My old battalion, 1st Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment, erected a fabulous memorial in 2007 to the men of 1/4 Essex. It is at the base of one of the castle's walls. The CWGC cemetery is full of 1/4 Essex men so you would need to bring plenty of poppies.

    Check out www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk for more info.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  15. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Huggie.

    If he served alongside Poles and Gurkhas then he was definitely at Cassino. His Brigade included 1/9 Gurkha Rifles and the Poles turned up in Apr 44 for the Fourth Battle and were up on Snakeshead a Ridge whilst a shattered 4 Indian Division - to which 1/4 Essex belonged, were on their right flank.

    If you are interested, I am taking a group of civilians to Cassino on 8-11 Jun 17 and will be looking in detail at the four battles. 1/4 Essex were heavily involved in the Second and Third Battles so there is a lot to see and take in. My old battalion, 1st Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment, erected a fabulous memorial in 2007 to the men of 1/4 Essex. It is at the base of one of the castle's walls. The CWGC cemetery is full of 1/4 Essex men so you would need to bring plenty of poppies.

    Check out www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk for more info.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Interesting little discovery. The 1/4th Essex padre from 1943-1945 was one "Rev. R. W. Woods [239275]", as featured in the photograph of battalion officers from 1944 on page four of this thread. With some powerful Google-Fu, I have discovered that this young priest went onto to high position in the church, ending up Robert Wilmer Woods, KCMG KCVO, an Anglican Bishop and Domestic Chaplain to The Queen.

    More here:
    Robin Woods - Wikipedia - although, as elsewhere, the Essex Regiment is not mentioned.

    The interesting part is that he penned an autobiography later in life, which I am now going to purchase on the chance that his time with the battalion gets a mention -- fingers crossed.

    md20384617309.JPG

    Robin Woods: An Autobiography by Robin Woods (SCM Press, 1986)

    In the unlikely event that anybody has a copy and can warn me to save my money, would they please give me a shout.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    While on the subject of chaplains, could anybody offer any more about the following individual?

    Father Joe - Joseph Williamson MBE (1895-1988) - he was a social reformer and anti-poverty campaigner who served with 4th Essex in the Great War:

    ...erstwhile priest in the East End of London, a noted campaigner against vice and rescuer of 'fallen women'. His experience of visiting a brothel on the Western Front (4th Essex Regiment) played a key role in forming his world view.

    As the biography at the link below records, he also served as a Chaplain to the Forces (1940-46) and an 'honorary captain'. (Chaplain 4th Class?).

    if anybody could muster anything else about his WW2 service, or even just his service number, I'd be grateful. I'm usually quite good with such searches, but I keep drawing blanks.

    Biography as mentioned:
    Father Joe Williamson

    Obituary:
    Priests and Prelates
     
  18. Michael Bully

    Michael Bully Active Member

    Really fascinated to hear of 'Desert Verses & other Verses' by F.S Tucker. Will need to try and read a copy next time I am at the British Library. Also need to see if Major Tucker appears in World War 2 poetry anthologies. The North African campaigns inspired a great deal of poetry,

    Regards


     
  19. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I think the only reason it isn't well known is that it was privately published.
    If you have no luck locating a copy, send me a message and I'll email you photographs of the text.
     
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  20. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Right, with apologies to the author who no doubt wished to memorialise his father's time in the army, honesty forces me to say that this is not a terribly good publication--and part of the reason is nothing to do with the writing. The title the book bears is Twelve Days in the Battle of Monte Cassino: An eyewitness account from the log of Bombardier Ronald Patrick Bunnett of the Royal Artillery, March 1944, but the combined page count of all fighting at Cassino runs to twenty-seven pages (of 104), the Third Battle amounts to nineteen pages and of those probably only 20% of the text comprises diary entries. This is not--as the advertisement goes--'what it says on the tin'.

    The second major problem is lack of industry on the part of the author. The padding text that surrounds those nineteen pages is a strategic summary of the end of the North African Campaign until the Capture of Rome(-ish), but there is almost no reference to the actions of the author's father as having done anything apart from having been there. The only reader this could be aimed at is somebody who knows very little about the war, which is odd as that's the polar opposite of the only readership the book is likely to attract. He simply has not researched his father's military history, but then he's written a book about it.

    The most absurd point of all--and one that I hope that somebody here might help to rectify--is that in 104 pages the name of the subject's unit is not mentioned! He's in the Royal Artillery and his unit is part of the 4th Indian Division, but that's about it.

    I have gleaned the following:

    Name:
    Ronald Patrick 'Pat' Bunnett.
    Born: 17/3/1913 in Kennington, South London.
    Resident: Plymouth
    Conscripted: 18/7/40 at Exeter
    Discharged: 15/4/46
    Training: Topsham Barracks, Nr. Exeter.
    Ranks held: Private, L/Corp, L/Sgt, Sgt. (I thought the Royal Artillery used different names for ranks?)
    Army No.: 988905 (probably--scarcely legible photographic reproduction)
    Attended: PT training at Oswestry (23/6/41 & 14/2/42); Coastal Artillery School Llandudno

    This about sums it up:

    "...I cannot tell how long he was paid in francs, or should I say how long he was in North Africa. I do know he was with Montgomery's 8th Army in North Africa, I think attached to the 4th Indian Division, but the North African theatre was vast and I cannot say with any certainty which part of it he was in, although I think he was very much involved in campaigns in Tunisia. I never heard him mention Tobruk in his reminisces (sic), so I do not think he was there [Why mention Tobruk out of the blue??]"

    Apparently he returned to North Africa (from where?) around 16th Jan 1944 (by which time 4th Ind Div had left...).

    Can anybody come up with a unit from all these lose threads?
     

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