Could anyone tell me where to find a list of all officers that served with the 23rd Hussars? If it makes any difference: I am specifically looking for NW Europe period (June 1944 - May 1945). Any help much appreciated! Cheers, Ronald.
You could compile a list for yourself using Army Lists which include dates of promotion, whether killed, etc. 1944 - Army lists > 1940-1946 - Quarterly Army Lists (Second Series), July 1940-December 1950 - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland 1945 - Army lists > 1940-1946 - Quarterly Army Lists (Second Series), July 1940-December 1950 - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland e.g. from (327) - Army lists > 1940-1946 - Quarterly Army Lists (Second Series), July 1940-December 1950 > 1945 > Third quarter > Part 1 > Volume 1 - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland Otherwise War Diaries contain Field Returns or, the History might contain a list in Appendix The Story of the 23rd Hussars 1940-1946
Hello dbf, and thanks for your reply. I am afraid The Story of the 23rd Hussars 1940-1946 does not contain a full list, but only the names of those being killed or wounded, or having received honors and awards. So I think I need to look at the Army list. One question on these lists: would they, for a certain date or month, show all officers actively servicing with the regiment at that moment? Or does the list only show officers with their parent regiment, some of which who might actually be serving with another regiment? And could the 23rd Hussars for instance also have employed officers who in the Army list are shown with another regiment (their parent regiment, e.g. RTR)? I hope my question is understandable and that somebody knows the answer... Regards, Ronald.
The lists were published on a quarterly basis, so would cover the situation as at the end of each 3 month period. They show all those with the parent regiment, i.e. holding a commission in it, but do not show who was in a combat role which I think is what you are after. There are annotations however e.g. for personnel who were "specially employed" To give you an idea, this is a transcript of one year which I did ... Irish Guards: Quarterly Army Lists 1944 and this man was with SOE at the time of publication before his return to the regiment and his death... X DORMER H E J, DSO - (War Substantive Lieutenant - 16/05/1941) (Temporary Captain - 11/09/1943) spec. emp. -16/11/1939 There are other Sections within the publication but I haven't explored them, perhaps someone else could better explain what else the Army Lists provide by way of information about individuals. The Officer Field returns in a war diary would give greater detail as well as more relevant information as regards participation in a combat role. They would also show when someone was wounded, when they were transferred, what role they played within the unit, when they were LOB, with Echelon or holding unit, on leave etc.
Thanks! I now know I need to look for 23H "Field return of officers" lists. I know I have seen them from other regiments. Think they were published monthly? I do have the 1944 War Diary of 23H, and it does not contain these lists. Does anyone know where to find them? Ronald.
The Field Returns would have been completed by the unit on a weekly basis (see heading in above example "For Week Ending ...") and filed in the War Diary's Appendices with the relevant month. Does your copy of the War diary include other Appendices like Sitreps, Intel reports, movement orders, etc? If not, then you need to check the original file at TNA and possibly get another copy. If so and there are no field returns present, then generally speaking there is no simple solution. You could always try and re-construct them from various sources such as Orbats, Army Lists, Army Casualty, Gallantry, POW & Missing personnel lists as well as CWGC info.
I've enhanced the above files to make them bit more readable, though the problem of handwriting interpretation remains - as always. Here is a much more legible list of Officers who were present at the 23H Christmas dinner, 21st Jan 1945 (there were good reasons for the delay in their celebrations!):.
Thanks, but I believe I am alright. Also 8th Rifle Brigade had their Christmas delayed as you might know. Probably for the same reason...
More details about most of the men listed above: Reginald Perigrine Harding Born 3 Jul 1905 in Shanghai, China Died 1981 in Pontypool, Gwent, Wales. Cecil Hugh Blacker Born 4 Jun 1916 in York Died 18 Oct 2002 in Banbury, Oxfordshire. Algernon Desmond Wigan Born 7 Jul 1911 in Mortlake, Surrey Died 1989 in Andover, Hampshire. Leonard Dunbar Hagger Born 17 Jan 1918 in Dunbar, Scotland Died 15 Nov 1987 in Wayland, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA. Judah Garcia Born 2 Jun 1904 in London Died 1993 in Colchester, Essex. Thomas Edward Harte Born 14 May 1921 Died 5 Mar 2011 in Eastbourne Hospital, Sussex. David Crisp Turquand Born 4 Oct 1919 in Brighton, Sussex Died 2001 in Leominster, Herefordshire. Charles Valentine O'Reilly Born 1909 in Granard, Ireland. Frederick John Shearman Born 30 Mar 1912 in Hereford Died 1974 in Blackpool and Fylde, Lancs. John William George Sandford Born 15 Apr 1916 in Kingsbridge, Devon Died October 5, 2001 in East Devon. Harry Llewellyn Blackman Born 13 Oct 1914 in Honolulu Died 10 Jun 1979 in Barton on Sea, Hants. Ian Somerville Geikie Born 27 Nov 1919 Died 1990 in Barnstaple, Devon. Geoffrey Sydney Charles Bishop Born 13 Jan 1909 in Richmond, Surrey Died 1967 in Surrey. John Mervyn Addison Born 16 Mar 1920 in Chobham, Surrey Died 7 Dec 1998 in Bennington County, Vermont, USA. Henry Charles Malcolm Born 15 Mar 1909 in Portsmouth, Hampshire Died 1981 in North Buckinghamshire. John Michael Weiner Born 21 Mar 1918 in Vienna, Austria Died 1997 in Aylesbury Vale, Bucks. Foster Charles Lowry Lamb (2nd Baron Rochester) Born 7 June 1916 Died 6 February 2017 in Knutsford, Cheshire (aged 100). Frederick Sydney Ponsford Born 25 Nov 1919 in London Died 2000 in Tower Hamlets, London. Richard Maldon Payne Born 1922 in Epsom, Surrey. Donald James Drake Born 23 Feb 1922 in Detroit, Michigan, USA Died Oct 2004 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. Richard Fitzgibbon Leather Born 1922 in Edinburgh Died 4 Dec 1989 in Malindi, Kenya. John Oliver Haines Born 15 Jun 1922 in Weymouth, Dorset Died 11 March 2005 in Chelmsford, Essex. George Valentine Vickers Born 8 Jan 1923 in Worcestershire Died 16 Nov 1987 in Sutton Coldfield. Stanley Bates Born 27 Nov 1921 in Halifax Died 1990 in Hull, East Yorks. Stephen Maxwell Young Born 31 Aug 1916 in Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire Died Jun 1974 in Plymouth, Devon. Bernard Anthony Bowers Born 17 May 1921 in Mansfield, Notts Died 1999 in Newark, Notts. Arthur John Hawkins Born 10 Jul 1923n in Reigate, Surrey Died 1971 in Eton, Bucks. James Gordon Procter Born 12 Feb 1919 in London Died 1995 in Hampshire. Michael Anthony Gordon-Smith Born 29 Mar 1923 John W Justham Born 1919 in Cardiff. John Theodore Cooper Steinhart Born 31 Mar 1923 in Brentford Died 1995 in Bristol, Gloucestershire. Geoffrey Woodland Born 1923 in Romford, Essex Died 1964 in Romford, Essex. Bruce Bernard Hansen Born 1923 in Holland. Eric Walter Kohn Born 15 Sep 1917 in Hackney, London Died 1999 in Barnet, Hertfordshire. Stanley Herbert Goss Born 2 Mar 1924 in Ilford, Essex Died 15 Feb 2011 in Brentwood, Essex. Richard Arthur Petley Born 14 Aug 1923 in Andover, Hampshire Died 4 Jan 1948 in Queen Alexandra Military Hospital, Millbank, London. (Sir) Philip Shelbourne Born 15 June 1924 in Wandsworth, London Died 15 April 1993 in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Michael G Graham Born 1923 in Rugby, Warwickshire. Eric Gerald Hunt Born 1924 in Wandsworth, London. James Leslie Martin Born 4 Oct 1915 in Rugby, Warwickshire Died 13 Mar 1961 at Gulson Hospital, Coventry. Robert Weddell Patterson Born 6 Aug 1914 in Sunderland, Durham Died 24 May 1965 in Selby, Yorks. Geoffrey Frederick Schoelles Born 1925 in Helensburgh, Dunbartonshire, Scotland Died 26 Sept 2008 in Birmingham. Wilfred James Gunn Born 11 Apr 1925 in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire Died 1987 in Wycombe, Bucks. Harry Burnett Born 26 Jul 1924 in Liverpool, Lancs Died 1996 at the Royal Hampshire County Hospital, Winchester. John Richard Malseed Born 26 Feb 1926 in Londonderry, Northern Ireland Died 1 June 2012 in Tiverton, Devon. Vincent Ashforth Blundell Dunkerly Born 1903 in Hessle, East Yorks Died 1968 in Aylesbury, Bucks. Christopher George Seymour Born 14 Aug 1913 in London Died 12 Nov 1983.in Basingstoke, Hampshire. Harcourt Michael Scudamore Gold Born 10 Jun 1908 in London Died 27 Feb 1982 in Winchester, Hampshire. Hugh Stuart Whitehill Born 21 May 1907 in Liverpool Died 1990 in Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales. Wilfrid Tom Jones Born 28 Dec 1906 in Hastings, Sussex Died 4 Feb 1991 in Dover, Kent James Fisher Scott Russell Born 1921 in Worksop Died 7 Jan 2012 in Slough, Bucks. Keith Norman Byard Born 1920 in Headington, Oxfordshire Died 24 Apr 2011 in Devon. James Hugh Evans Born 28 Aug 1920 in Birkenhead, Cheshire Died 1980 in St Mary, Platt, Kent. David Ferguson King Born 9 Aug 1914 in Brentford, Middlesex Died 16 Nov 1992 in Chippenham, Wiltshire. Adam Sutherland Cochrane Born 23 Apr 1910 Died 3 Jan 1978 in Chelsea, London. Michael Frederick Morley MBE Born 7 Sep 1911 in Paddington, London Died 1990 in Swindon, Wiltshire. James Leslie Watt Born 25 Sep 1905 in Millbrook, Cornwall Died 12 Jul 1989 in Newton Ferrers, Devon. Jeremy Meddows Taylor Born 3 Aug 1907 in Devizes, Wilts Died 1985 in St Austell, Cornwall. Peter Chalice Walter Born 11 Mar 1915 in Bridge, Kent Died 1993 in New Romney, Kent. Clifford William Crouch Born 14 Jul 1915 in Croydon, Surrey Died 12 May 1983 in Westminster, London. Alexander Lewis Kerton Born 30 Jul 1917 in Essex Died 2002 in Thurrock, Essex. Michael Gunyon Born 20 Oct 1924 ín Richmond, Surrey Died Aug 1989 in Canterbury, Kent. John Wilfrid Da Cunha Born 6 Sep 1922 in Bucklow, Derbyshire Died 2006 in Somerset. Noel Haughton Riley Born 1924 in Manchester, Lancs. George Patrick Mitchell Born 25 Feb 1917 in Insch, Aberdeenshire Died died 2 Sep 1993 in Edinburgh.
I can’t believe I missed this thread! For some time now, I have been looking for further information on Capt. J. M. Weiner, as I own his C/FSC - very interesting to see that he was born in Austria, March 1918. Note the ‘cap badge’ is in fact a silver and gilt (‘S’ marked and from a J.R. Gaunt die) collar badge. Best, Marcus
Interesting to see in post #9 that my old friend David Turquand is still showing 24th Lancers as his 'parent' Corps/Regiment.
Hi Marcus, More info about John Weiner (Intelligence Officer, 23H): Parents: Ludwig Weiner (Banker) Birth 1879 in Bratislava, Czechoslovakia Death 1968 in New York, United States of America Married Hedwig Blanche Monath Birth 1895 in Vienna, Austria Death Dec 1966 in Cuckfield, Sussex 1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION 34 Crespigny Road, Hendon, Middlesex NAME DOB OCCUPATION Ludwig Wiener 13 Jul 1886 Lions Tradugles Managing Director Hedwig Wiener 12 Apr 1893 Unpaid Domestic Duties Charlotte Stechler (Wiener) 09 May 1916 Laboratory Assistant Edith Grant (Wiener) 27 Jul 1922 Seeking Work Not Previously Employed 1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION Trinity College, Trinity Street, Cambridge NAME ROLE DOB OCCUPATION John M Weiner I 21 Mar 1918 Law Student And look what he's wearing!
Thank you very much - that’s absolutely fantastic information, Harkness. I’ve only really found snippets from the likes of the London Gazette concerning his promotions, and his eventual release from the Regular Reserve of Officers,’ where he’s no-less Major Weiner. Plus, of course his brief mention in the 1946 published book, too, as I recall. Best, Marcus
Many of the FSC's similar to that shown by Marcus, were made at Herbert Johnson's on Old Burlington Street W1. Herbert Johnson (hatters) - Wikipedia A fine scarce example by Herbert Johnson, 13 Burlington St, London W1. Scarlet curtain, body and peak and crown; the welt of the crown and top of the curtain ornamented with gold braid; the front with two flat gilt metal buttons of regimental pattern. To the left side, embroidered into the body of the cap, a large bullion eagle. The interior with silk lining. 14/20th Hussars.