3 RTR B Squadron

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Frank Flattery, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    Prepare yourself...I've been busy!! Based on the war diary and Granddad's notes, this is what I've come up with...probably some mistakes, etc, see what you think.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Gosh! You have been busy indeed. Lots of those places and dates very familiar. Would be interesting to compare your grandads notes to Langdons book.

    Does your grandads notes say anything about B Squadron climbing all over the Fehrmann Tiger F01 - or, better still, do you have any photographs - after it had been knocked out near the Drebber Brook in the Essel/Aller Forest?
     
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  3. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    I'll see your 01 SDP and raise you an 02!

    Tiger Tiger...?

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim
     
  4. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Excellent photos of F02. Hadn't seen those before. I wonder where the photos were taken.

    One for SDP: by the time F01 was at the Drebber it should be known as Franzen's F01.

    John
     
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  5. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    I totally agree.
    Anyway, more to the point, are you going to Tiger Day at Bovington in April?
     
  6. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Is that the day for the Grand Historic Meet-up?
     
  7. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Mustn't stray too much from the thread topic but I may be at Tiger Day in April. Don't know about Dick (Taylor) or Stephen (White) - haven't got round to that as I was only thinking about Tiger Day today (family conversation etc about whether they want to go - daughter thinks all tanks are the same but "will they be blowing stuff up" and son, Oliver, says "is that the big tank, if so I'd like to go if everyone else is".....)
     
  8. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Those look like RTR Cap Badges?!
     
  9. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Certainly look like RTR cap-badges to me. It is curious that the soldiers are in shirt sleeve order. That suggests there was absolutely no threat, yet B Sqn moved on with the rest of 3 RTR once the Aller was crossed. Of course we don’t know where F02 was in action, particularly its final action. However, it is likely to my mind to have been in the general area of the Luneburg Heath. Did 3 RTR return to this area after the surrender?
     
  10. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    3RTR returned to the general area before the surrender: they were withdrawn from the line for 10 days as this quick screengrab of my 'track of 1 Troop' shows (information again extracted from Langdons book).

    Note: we need to bear in mind that, even if the badges are RTR, it doesn't mean they are necessarily 3RTR

    IMG_5001.PNG
     
  11. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    Afraid not, he never mentioned seeing the Tiger, as I mentioned earlier on, the only time he mentioned going back to see a KO-ed tank was when they took out 2 ( or so he believes). perhaps he was getting events mixed up, I really don't know. Reading the WD, it looks like A & B Sqds were held up at the Aller crossing, A Sqd and KSLI engaged enemy at crossing, and C Sqd flanked right via Engehausen. The Tiger was brewed up at 10:30, but Bn didn't resume advance until 12:00 due to reports of more tanks on route, and they had to call in Typhoons. I don't think they had much time to do any sightseeing, as WD states 'very wooded ....considerable number of enemy..', etc, and reports of another Tiger covering route.
     
  12. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Understood. Paradoxically there are, under the circumstances, quite a lot of photos of people climbing all over F02 and with the chaps being mostly B Squadron. See the Fehrmann Tiger versus three British Comets thread.

    Battlegroup Fehrmann Tiger v. three British Comets, 3RTR

    Frank: have you got a copy of John Russell's - aka JDKR - book 'No Triumphant Procession'? John's book describes the final battles in the very area we are currently discussion. I'm sure John won't mind me saying but copies are normally available on eBay for competitive prices. He's also about to get an update published as well......
     
  13. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    My wife's going to kill me. Regarding a second Tiger, the WD states the same afternoon:
    1640; C Sqn passed through to continue support for 4 KSLI. Hy opposition met from wood 321608. OP tk brewed by Tiger.
    1700; Party continues. 4 KSLI report Tiger damaged.

    It doesn't make clear if the Tiger had been abandoned or not, but maybe..
     
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  14. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Thanks for the plug Steve but better to wait until my latest book Theirs the Strife is published. Should be on the shelves this spring. It covers the fighting in the Essel forest - including 3 RTR and F01's participation - in much more detail than in NTP and has masses of maps. It also gives F01 the correct callsign!

    I think F02 was probably the third Tiger to take part in the battle in the Essel area. One of the three Tigers was hit a number of times (must have been on its frontal armour as there was no scope for defilade shoots in the forest and the Tiger came straight down the road) by a 4 KSLI 6pdr anti-tank gun. It wasn't F01 as there are no strike marks visible on its frontal armour in any of the photos. The second of Jim's two photos gives a bit of a view of the front of F02 and no strike marks are apparent on this Tiger either. The third Tiger remains a bit of a mystery, unless of course someone produces some photos...
     
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  15. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    The photos are out there.......somewhere. Remember when Fred Preston's photo of F01 came out of the blue. Only had to wait 70 odd years for it to reach the current audience.
     
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  16. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

     

    Attached Files:

  17. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    Not sure what happened there....I posted and quoted all in one go...
    anyway:

    I did see the photo that appears in that thread, and at the time wondered, as one of the tankers pictured is named as Corporal Evans, and Cherub's driver was Sid Evans...I've put a mosaic of the faces, are they the same person? (I hestitate to give my opinion, what with my track record of identifying Charlie..). Also, are the IDs of the rest of the people in the photo 100%?
     
  18. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Same here re facial recognition: always difficult for me. If anything, I would say the left and centre images are of the same chap, not sure of the right hand image (looks to be someone different to me).
     
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  19. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    I suppose there isn't a higher-quality version of that pic floating around, or that they couldn't get one done? The person on top to the right of the turret is names as being Pen Treneta?? ...although, peering really hard, it could almost be my grandfather..
     
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  20. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    I've asked the chap who has the original photo
     
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