2/5th Queens . The Gothic Line

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Paul Kirby, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Paul Kirby

    Paul Kirby New Member

    Hi, I am trying to establish what happened to my Granddads brother who died on the 13th Sept 1944.
    His name was John Freason Kirby
    Army Number: 1565641
    He was in the 2/5th Battalion The Queens Royal (West Surrey) Regiment.
    Casualty Details | CWGC
     
  2. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Major R.C.G. Foster M.C., History of the Queen’s Royal Regiment, Volume VIII, 1924-1948, Gale & Polden 1953

    Map from page 344.
    Croce September 1944.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  3. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Sorry the map is a bit out of focus, I am still getting used to using my phone for this activity.

    Mark
     
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  4. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    From 2/5th Queens History:

    2_50.jpg 2_51.jpg
     
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  5. Paul Kirby

    Paul Kirby New Member

    Still reading but Thankyou so much
     
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  6. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Paul.

    I recommend that you get his Service Record from MoD Glasgow and then you can work out exactly how he came to be in 2/5 Queens on that fateful day. The battalion did a lot of grim work up to 13 Sep 44 having landed at Salerno on 9 Sep 43. This journey, in addition to the horror of a Salerno, included the crossing of the Volturno in Oct 43, the Second Battle of Camino in Dec 43, the crossing of the Garigliano in Jan 44, a long tour of duty at Anzio and then the Gothic Line.

    If he was with the battalion for the whole period then he endured a lot.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  7. Paul Kirby

    Paul Kirby New Member

    This is like removing a splinter for my family. It hurts but is good to know. I have been deeply moved by what I have read above & I can't thank you guys enough. Jack (John Freason Kirby) transferred to the 2/5th Queens on 27th April 1944 from HAA/S, so had been with the unit for approx 5 months before he met his fate.
     
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  8. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    I suggest you should obtain a copy of the Battalion War Diary for 1944, it will provide you with much information on their activities during the period concerned.
     
  9. Paul Kirby

    Paul Kirby New Member

    Thanks Mark
    Where can I get that from?
     
  10. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    They are held at The National Archives, Kew.

    I would suggest contacting Drew5233 and PsyWar.Org to see if they have copies, which they may have made for others, and which they could supply to you for a nominal fee. If not it will be a case of either asking them to visit for you, once again with a fee.

    I am also going to copy what I can from the Regimental History later today, to post here.
     
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  11. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I also copy diaries from TNA and only charge a small fee for the months you need not the whole file.

    I do already have those for 2/5th. However, they are handwritten and give significantly less information that the battalion history.
     
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  12. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Paul.

    That would make sense. With no aircraft threat to speak of and a huge shortage of infantrymen, a lot of HAA Regt RA were disbanded and converted to infantry as were almost all the LAA Regt RA in Italy.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  13. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    All of the infantry battalions of 56th Division received around significant RA replacements (100-200 each) when they returned to the Middle East to refit in April - June 1944.
     
  14. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Gary.

    Brilliant. I can now see where the reinforcement, and the ability to retrain, took place.

    F
     
  15. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Gary,

    I shall try and remember you next time I am making recommendation of members making copies at TNA.

    Mark
     
  16. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Most of the diaries have full lists of attached RA personnel (officers and ORs). It would make an interesting academic exercise to examine the eventual casualty rate especially if you could compare against infantry-only trained recruits.
     
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  17. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Gary.

    I have the WDs for 2/5 Queens over the period that John Kirby was in the battalion. I will send them to Paul this evening.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  18. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Mark, I know how you feel. I'm still trying to find a stand that will fit my phone. Better still would be good if i could get my scanner connected to my laptop. I do miss it. Taken me a age to get the best out of my phone without a stand.;) See file below. Its page 432.
    rsz_432.jpg
    Whats the full title of the above? Is it by Roy E. Bullen? He did the the copy of 2/7 Queen's Royal Regiment. It would be strange if a battalion history of 2/6 did not go to print.

    Stu.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  19. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    It is by Capt. P N Tregoning - it is 2/5th Queens. There is also a 2/6th Queens but I'd have to go and find it to see who the author was.
     
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