Laochra, Thanks for the pointer above. I did read Dunn's thesis, but missed the appendices the last being Wing Commander Walter Cheshire's recollections. So now to read Appendix K, pgs. 764-774 and the link is: https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/29525/1/10731681.pdf He ends with:
Couple of Questions on this In 80 Bde I don't recognise Kumaon Regimental name, who are they? Burma Star site has 1/1st GR in 100 Bde too - where's this OoB from Re the RIASC any idea of the composition for these? Where is their location held and I am correct with other Service units? Many thanks for your help John
1st Kumaon Rifles were a battalion of the 19th Hyderabad Regiment. In fact, in 1945, the Hyderabad Regiment was renamed the Kumaon Regiment.
Indeed. And even for those in too much of a hurry to purchase a book, there is plenty of information on the internet for those willing to spend a minute on a search.
Ye Yes indeed. However there were two other questions asked at the same time. I hoped the author wouldn't mind responding to all of them. Apologies if I have upset you.
In 1945, after the fall of Mandalay, 36th British Division and 20th Indian Division exchanged battalions. 20th Indian division lost all three British battalions, 1st Devons, 2nd Border and 1st Northamptons, but in return got all Indian battalions from 26th Indian Brigade which was under 36th Division command. One of those units was 1/1st KGV's Own Gurkha Rifles. When 20th Indian Division moved to French Indochina, 114th (Sussex) Field Regiment RA was the only British units left in division.
Yes indeed. As I understand it the swap occurred in April. The other incoming Indian Bns were 1/19th Hyderabad (which has been pointed out is was know by then as Kumaon Regt) and the 2/8th Punjab. What has got me confused is that different sources have them being allocated to different Brigades. For example I had source that puts 1/1st KGVO GR in 32 Bde wereas source above has them in 100 Bde. I was trying to get some idea of which list is correct. Hence that question. Thank you for your help
Ok as MarkN suggested I did 30 seconds of research. So as I understand it this Bn (1/19th Hyderabad) was known as Russell's and the 3rd Bn was the Kumaon Rifles through WW2. The whole Regiment name change officially happened after the Bde arrived in Saigon (27th October 1945), but as far as I can work out it was still referred to as 1/19th Hyderabad until they left. Nonetheless the point remains I could have checked myself. Apologies. John Kumaon Regiment - Wikipedia
1 Kumaon was the 1(/19) Hybad after the entire regiment was redesignated in 10/45. 1 Kumaon Rifles was a completely different battalion. It had been called that even before the regiment was redesignated. It was in Malaya at this time, not French Indo-China. 1/1 GR Source: Various Orders of Battle and Location Statements available at the Public Record Office. I tried to pin these tnings down myself because, as you will have noticed, there are conflicting accounts in the easily available sources. One problem is that most Orders of Battle end on 31/08/45 or 02/09/45, which is not a lot of good if you are interested in FIC, Java, Sumatra, Borneo, Thailand, Burma, etc. in the immediate post-war period. RIASC; Well, I certainly don't have any War Establishments for these units - but then who does? I find it difficult enough to follow the changes in designation and assign dates to them. At least the General Transport Companies/Companies RIASC (General/Army/Corps/etc.Transport) retained the same numbers, unlike some other redesignations. Don't even start on the Supply Issue Section/Composite Issue Platoons/Composite Platoons problem. I think we can at least agree the the Mule/Animal Transport (Mule) Companies were dropped once the division was accross the Irrawaddy. It is muddy water, I'm afraid.
Oh, ok, I understand. 1/1st Gurkha Rifles was in 100th Indian Brigade while in Indochina. Their place in 32nd Indian Brigade was taken by 4/2nd Gurkha Rifles which was attached to the 20th Indian Division as recce battalion while in Burma, in April if I'm not wrong. I can check tonight if there is any info in official history of 1st Gurkha Rifles in nobody post it before.
1/1st Gurkha Rifles joined 32nd Indian Brigade on 20th April, 1945. Just couple of days later, on 25th, it joined 100th Indian Brigade.
Muddy indeed, and thanks for the info share. I agree that the mules had gone definitely before going to FIC, probably around the time the transport units (?) arrived. Could it have been April 45 at the same time as Infantry Bn swap around? Regarding the 1/19th designation, the wiki link says there are four Bn pre-war 1st (Russell's), 2nd (Berar), 4th and The Kumaon Rifles. Thus this Bn must have been titled 1st Bn (Russell's) The Hyderabad Regt until the change of Regimental title (27th Oct 1945). Its post 44 where 1st Bn Kumaon Rifles are mentioned, and I was a little unsure about designation. Anyway things are getting a little clearer and again thank you for your input. John
From Masterson 20th Indian Division in French Indo-China 1945-46, footnote #98 I'll be altering my OoB accordingly. The battalion (9/12th Frontier Force Regiment) arrived in FIC in early October 1945. It was initially commanded by an Indian Commissioned Officer (ICO), Lt Col Hayaud Din, who had commanded the battalion during the heavy fighting in Burma in 1945. The battalion had served throughout the Burma campaigns of 1943-1945 with the 80th Indian Infantry Brigade. Upon the ending of the Burma campaign, the unit became the recce battalion for the division. During the first weeks of deployment to FIC, it served in the Cholon area of Saigon and participated in many clearing patrols of the area. In mid-October it was ordered to proceed to Cap St Jacques to set up a series of internment camps for the Japanese POWs. See WO 172/7738, January to December 1945, as well as General Gracey Papers, file 4/26.
Isn't that the same as my post #27, or have I mixed up (a) and (b) - you haven't included the, presumably, explanatory footnotes for which was Recce Bn and which was HQ Bn.
This is from the original document. The notes are: (a) Divisional HQ Battalion (b) Recce Battalion (c) Armoured Car Regiment
Thanks. In that case I do have them the wrong way around. Whoops! I'm not normally that incompetent (!), so I must have had some conflicting information. Let me re-check.
It turns out that I am that incompetent, after all. In my defence; I was lead astray by ‘Perry’, who has 9/12 FFR as HQ Bn 04/45-02/46. This was seemingly confirmed by WO 212/471, but that was dated 18/08/45 – very soon after the change from HQ Bn to Recce Bn came about. All other sources confirm your information. Sorry for any confusion (mostly mine, it seems).
No problem. Indian Army orders of battle are quite confusing particularly Burma/Arakan, where recce and HQ battalions were constantly changed as units in the main brigades needed rest and recovery time. I guess assignment to these two duties was easier than in the main brigades.
