Can anyone give me guidance about some War Establishment numbers? I know that all the numbers relate to Prisoner of War ‘camps’ in the UK between 1939 to 1948. I think the ‘V’ may mean the volume number - : V= Home I think the numbers may relate to the number of troops required. Can anyone put me right on this and/or provide details as to what the troop numbers were? Thank you V/1270/3 V/1270/4 V/1395/2 V/1416/1 V/1452/2 V/1453/2 V/1456/2 V/1507/2 V/202/4 V/202/5 V111/356/3
Malcolm You are correct guessing V as (Roman) volume number and "Home". The following number (1270 ...) denotes the table number, and the last the version (so there were V/1270/1and /2 before /3, each with a date of "published in A.C.Is.", sometimes with a second date "effective", that could be before or after the publishing). I am seperated from my notes, but can say: Normally, War Establishments are of the abstract type; whenever a unit has a task (e.g.: Infantry Battalion, P.o.W. Camp), then it is organized on this basis. I remember several tables, especially about those Camps, depending on the size or the number of the prisoners held. But of course there are tables of the definite type, too, sometimes denoting a unit number, sometimes not. Sometimes, it may be difficult to find out on which WE a unit was organized. Units war diaries may help in this case.
Thank you Aixman. I will crack this one clue at a time - and you have given me another step. Can you tell me what 'A.C.Is' is? I have one further clue relating to WE numbers and numbers of pows: Camp 157(Base Camp) - Bourton Camp, Bourton-on-the-Hill, Moreton-in-Marsh, Glos. was recorded as "V/202/4 (over 1500PW)" I have a list of which camp had which W.E. number, but other than the clue above it does not tell me size of camp, or troops required. Best wishes, Malcolm
Army Council Instructions, being published (I believe) on a fortnight's basis in the years before the war, dealing with many army related items, also wie WEs, but only saying, certain WEs have appeared or changed or vanished, without mentioning their content except for their names. Shortly before the war the switched to weekly, then twice in a week, than with additional supplements, growing more and more. Your list would be appreciated ... Regarding sizes and troops, I could surely help you, but that is a time consuming thing. I'll see when I get to my notes.
Malcolm First comes your citation in quotation marks, followed by information from my notes. All dates DD.MM.YYYY, first date is “published in A.C.Is.”, second is “effective” date. Asterisk * denotes sliding scale, extended depending on the prisoners held. Attached numbers are additional to all ranks: “V/1270/3 V/1270/4” V/1270/1 27.09.1944 12.09.1944 Prisoner of War Working Company (400 prisoners of war) 61 all ranks, 1 attached V/1270/2 16.05.1945 24.04.1945 Prisoner of War Working Company (425 - 525 prisoners of war) 70 all ranks, 1 attached * V/1270/3 18.07.1945 03.07.1945 Prisoner of War Working Company (440 - 540 prisoners of war) 35 all ranks, 1 attached * V/1270/4 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) „V/1395/2“ V/1395/1 21.03.1945 02.03.1945 Guard for Prisoner of War Hospital (400 - 600 beds) V/1395/2 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) 72 all ranks “V/1416/1” V/1416/1 25.04.1945 10.04.1945 Military Hospital (P.W.), Chepstow (532 Beds) 180 all ranks (British [12] and German protected male [138] and female [30] personnel) “V/1452/2” V/1452/1 11.07.1945 22.06.1945 German Prisoner of War Working Camp (Up to 1,250 prisoners of war, including attached Italians) V/1452/2 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) 35 all ranks (including Italians), 1 attached “V/1453/2” V/1453/1 11.07.1945 22.06.1945 German Prisoner of War Working Camp (Over 1,250 prisoners of war, including attached Italians) V/1453/2 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) 38 all ranks (including Italians), 1 attached “V/1456/2” V/1456/1 18.07.1945 03.07.1945 Prisoner of War Working Company (1,070 prisoners of war) V/1456/2 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) 74 all ranks, 1 attached “V/1507/2” V/1507/1 21.11.1945 07.11.1945 No. 300 Prisoner of War Camp V/1507/2 (not found yet, maybe released post 1945) 81 all ranks “V/202/4 V/202/5” V/1931/202/1 27.07.1938 (no effective date, not existing in 1938) (“1931” denoted the “new” WE system, from mid 1941 dropped.) Prisoner of War Camp (Other ranks) (To accommodate up to 500 (… up to 2000) prisoners inclusive) 117 all ranks V/202/2 01.03.1944 16.02.1944 Prisoner-of-War Camps (Other Ranks) 180/256/304/340 all ranks, depending on prisoners held V/202/3 13.12.1944 23.11.1944 Prisoner of War Camps (Other Ranks) 138/191/227/260 all ranks, depending on prisoners held V/202/4 25.07.1945 06.07.1945 Prisoner of War Camps 141/179/214/239 all ranks, depending on prisoners held “V111/356/3” Should read VIII/356/3. Volume VIII contains the secret WEs and is somewhat “special”. In A.C.Is., from a certain time on, most WEs are quoted without title. The content of volume VIII WEs in Kew seems to be “incomplete”. VIII/356/1 12.08.1942 23.07.1942 Guard for No. 99 Prisoner of War Hospital 122 all ranks VIII/356/2 22.12.1943 09.12.1943 Guard for No. 99 Prisoner of War Hospital 91 all ranks VIII/356/3 21.02.1945 01.02.1945 Guard for No. 99 Prisoner of War Hospital 134 all ranks, 3 attached No WE found for No. 99 Prisoner of War Hospital, but according to distribution list for version 2 it was in Western Command. Version 3 mentions Chepstow, Talgarth and Llandilo, all in South Wales.
And re Camp 99: Camp 99 Military Hospital Shugborough Park, Shugborough, Staffordshire Prisoner of War Camps (1939 – 1948) - Project report by Roger J.C. Thomas - English Heritage 2003 SJ 991 226 - Shugborough Park Hospital, Great Haywood, Staffordshire - Military Hospital. Returned to parkland International Red Cross visit - 20/21 July 1942 - capacity 270; 9 July 1943, capacity 500 beds; 10/11 October 1943, capacity 500 beds; 1/2 May 1944 NOTE – different entry for ICRC – Hospital. 99. The Military Hospital, Chepstow, Monmouth.
Observations on War Establishments at German POW camps 20 and 158 in May-July 1945 Camp 20 1. Using information from Syston Images for Camp 20 Bramham / Bickham, on the day German Base Camp 20 moved from Bramham to Bickham/Yelverton, the Camp Adjutant listed in the War Diary [WD] Movement Order the war establishment as 9 officers, 1 WO and 147 other ranks. This gives a fixed point for comparisons with the data above posted by Aixman for V/202/3. The move was 17-19 May 1945. WO 166/17821 PoW Camp 20 Bramham Park, WO 166/17821 PoW Camp 20 Bramham Park. Camp 158 2. In May 1945, Camp 158 North Burton was founded. (It was not listed in Rogers' English Heritage list). It had a camp guard to meet establishment V/202/3 of 10 officers and 210 other ranks. This is close to the third tier figure, of 227 all ranks, mentioned in Aixman's post above. In June, 29 more ORs arrived 'to complete unit establishment.' Making a grand total of 249. This is close to the fourth tier of 260, for the largest POW camps.WO 166/17824 PoW Camp 158 North Burton. WO 166/17824 PoW Camp 158 North Burton During May, the Camp POW level rose to 2047. There were more changes to the POW count which I have not listed. However, a 13 July WD entry indicated a film on German holocaust atrocities was shown to 3,243 POWs [I suspect this is an aggregate over a number of days]. However, this number shows that the camp was staffed and guarded pretty much by the maximum number under V/202/3 for a camp with 2,000 plus POWs. Without Aixman's efforts and Martin Hughes' work on his MA, this post would not have been possible. Thanks to them for solving my problem. Images Shot During Module
