What was the series of books giving the full BEF Orbat

Discussion in '1940' started by James K, Mar 27, 2024.

  1. James K

    James K Active Member

    and equipment scales? I've been searching for it but cannot find it.
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Alan Philson ?
     
  3. James K

    James K Active Member

    Yes I think that was the author
     
  4. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    The books are:

    Philson, Alan. The British Army 1939-1945: British Expeditionary Force Organisation and Order of Battle 10 May 1940: Volume 1. Milton Keynes: The Military Press, 2005.


    Philson, Alan. The British Army 1939-1945: British Expeditionary Force Organisation and Order of Battle 10 May 1940: Volume 2. Milton Keynes: The Military Press, 2006.

    I have copies of both. I worked with Alan on a few volumes of the series;

    Hughes, David, Broshot, James, and Philson, Alan (later Ryan, David A. and Rothwell, Steve). The British Armies in World War Two: An Organisational History. West Chester, Ohio: George F. Nafziger, 1999-2009 [11 volumes and 4 supplements]
     
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  5. James K

    James K Active Member

    I don't suppose you know where I could find a copy do you? I've tried Abe Books and ebay without much luck
     
  6. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

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  7. Aixman

    Aixman War Establishment addict Patron

    All 6 volumes have been published, and I have them, but I wouldn't sell them.

    I don't have them to hand right now; as far as I remember, they essentially contain war establishments, accompanied by introductory comments on certain things, and are structured like Gary Kennedy's books on 21 Army Group.

    I could give some information on war establishments themselves directly, on content from the books next week.
     
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  8. James K

    James K Active Member

    Thank You
     
  9. James K

    James K Active Member

    Hi,
    I'm in the UK, in the New Forest. Volume III was certainly published as I borrowed it from Hampshire Library service a few years ago, its part of the military collection in Aldershot. Unfortunately its the only volume they have. Similarly I used to access the Defence Library Service but they only have volume III as well
     
  10. James K

    James K Active Member


    I would be interested to learn about the war establishment of a British Infantry Garrison Battalions if you have that in the books.
     
  11. Aixman

    Aixman War Establishment addict Patron

    As I don't have the books at hand, I rely on my master table and on the copies of the original war establishments. The mention of "volumes" (Roman numbers III, IV or V) refer to the war establishment volumes, NOT to Alan Philson's work.

    The term "garrison" appears 21 times until the end of June 1940, mostly for units in the United Kingdom (Volume V).
    III/32 F/1 - An Infantry Garrison Battalion (Overseas), A.C.I. 14.02.1940, effective until 20.10.1944.
    This is a "general" war establishment of the type sample, and I can't say if units of the B.E.F. were organized on it.

    There are some more war establishments for "garrison", that are explicit for single units, so it is (rather) sure that they were used:
    IV/3 B/1 - Brest Garrison, A.C.I. 20.03.1940, never officially cancelled.
    IV/3 C/1 - Headquarters, Havre Garrison, A.C.I. 20.03.1940, never officially cancelled.
    IV/3 F/1 - Headquarters, St. Malo Garrison, A.C.I. 24.04.1940, never officially cancelled.
    IV/3 G/1 - Headquarters, St. Nazaire Garrison, A.C.I. 19.06.1940, never officially cancelled.

    After Dunkirk, there was understandably some confusion, and so it is not uncommon for these war establishments to be "forgotten" in terms of cancellation. As for the St. Nazaire Garrison, the very late promulgation might be explained by the same acceleration of events; at that time, war establishments could not yet be backdated. Its promulgation under these circumstances lets me think that it had been applied, most probably earlier. Knowledgeable members with a B.E.F. focus could tell us probably more about the date of the implementation of the St. Nazaire Garrison.

    Please tell me if you want one of these specific ones examined. They are relatively small, between 20 and 40 all ranks, and colonel's or lieutenant-colonel's commands.

    III/32 F/1 - An Infantry Garrison Battalion (Overseas) consisting of battalion headquarters; headquarter company of A.A., pioneer and administrative platoons; and 4 rifle companies, each of 3 platoons of 3 sections, 686 all ranks including attached.
     
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  12. James K

    James K Active Member

    Thanks most useful and interesting as always.

     

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