Loss of Lancaster ME757 WS-O - 9 Sqn - 13 Aug 44

Hello all. I took a photograph of the grave of Rear Gunner W.R.Andrew taken at Hottot-Les_Bagues war Cemetary. For some reason it piqued my interest and decided to look up his storey when I got home, this dicussion came up. It's very interesting to put a background storey to this young man's name.

 

The loss of ME757 WS-O was indeed a tragic event.

My Father Leslie Cornelius, a navigator, flew with F/O Relton until mid March 1944 while they were training at 16 OTU based at Upper Heyford. However Relton, who was senior to and older than the rest of the crew, did not get on well with the crew and morale dipped. This original training crew were split up and my father eventually joined 90 squadron in July 1944 flying Lancasters (chiefly Mk 3 WP-A in A flight) and later 238 transport squadron flying in Dakotas in the Burma campaign before arriving in Australia.

In civilian life E. H .M. Relton was a journalist, adventurer and author. eg the book published in 1939 titled: "A Man in the East: A Journey Through French Indo-China" (refer http://books.google.com.au/books/about/A_Man_in_the_East.html?id=iIDMngEACAAJ&redir_esc=y ). Relton also wrote the editorial to the Souther Cadet about Souther field training school Refer (https://no23squadron.wordpress.com/category/souther-field/ )

Of the air crash itself, the book "Bombers First and Last" by Gordon Thorburn, 2006 says (p286):

"Some of them said it was hit by flak. My own bomb aimer Jim Parsons said it was flak. but I saw him at 16,000 feet being hit by bombs dropped by another Lanc flying above us. they could have hit me but they hit him, and there was no doubting the result. The nose was gone and half the starboard wing was missing. They tipped over and went straight in, into the shore by the harbour. Nobody could have survived."

Further, Thorburn says "F/Lt Edward Harry Maxwell Relton, age 34, was on his 12th op. His wife was staying in Bardney village. They had been married one week."

Wayne.

 

A wide angle photo of ME757 WS-O taken in the summer of 1944 & being prepared for a mission with Relton & crew is shown between pages 272 and 273 of Gordon Thorburns' book (refer https://books.google.com.au/books?id=b9YO_3eaIpoC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false ).

Wayne

PS it took some time to work out how to add a copy of this photo but Imanaged to do it. As you can see the photo is not the best quality. I used 15% auto smartfix to in Photoshop Elements to enhance it a bit.

 

Hi,

I am French and I’m really moved by this discussion.

Yesterday while walking at Kerdrein (Plougastel) I found a part of aircraft. I am passionate about the history of the Second World War so I did research about the plane that crashed here. I found some information about the plane and after many research I found this discussion.

I would like to share with you some pictures of the part.

I hope you understand me, I don’t speak English very well.

 

Florentin....welcome to the forum and a very interesting thread.

Your photograph 573 jpg shows an aluminium component of the aircraft which has the manufacturer's part number stamped on it.I read this as C 75176A which perhaps might might lead to the part being identified.

If the aircraft was the Lancaster in discussion, although the aircraft was of sub contracted manufacture by Metro Vickers at Trafford,Manchester,the part numbers would be determined by Avro,the designers of the Lancaster and would be common on all Lancaster production.

Thanks for adding another dimension to the discussion.

 

Well done Florentin.

Cheers
Geoff

 

Have found a photograph of 4 of the crew: (left to right) fsgts W R Andrew, C T Scott, J K Scott, and C H Edwards taken at Silverstone, England on a rather cold day by the look of the thick gloves.

 

typo on the address sent a mail to CWGC should be East Ham
JOHNSON, FREDERICK WALTER
Rank:
Sergeant
Trade:
Flight Engineer
Service No:
1390712
Date of Death:
13/08/1944
Age:
23
Regiment/Service:
Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
9 Sqdn.
Grave Reference:
Grave 5.
Cemetery:
PLOUGASTEL-DAOULAS COMMUNAL CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Frederick and Charlotte Johnson; husband of Evelyn Maud Johnson, of Fast Ham. Essex.

 

they will update the correct address
Re: 1390712 Sergeant FREDERICK WALTER JOHNSON

Thank you for contacting the CWGC concerning an error in the address of the next-of-kin for Sergeant F W Johnson. We have now amended this to East Ham as per our cemetery register and believe the error had occurred due to scanning from the register to the Casualty Database.

Please allow 24 hours the amendment to be visible on our public website.

 

Hello to all,
Florentin, you may have a look at this site below where a Lancaster is being restored. They may own the Parts Catalog and help to locate your part.
Restauration du Lancaster WU 21 de 2010 jusqu’à 2015. - Ailes Anciennes le Bourget
Hope this helps
Gildas

PS Just been contacted with someone else who also recovered other parts...

 

LEST WE FORGET
ANZAC day here in Australia, the dawn service celebrated out the front of our homes this year because of the virus

Stay safe all of our friends in France particularly Gildas.

Kind Regards
Steve McConville.

 

War Service records of F/Sgt D W McConville,
Might be of interest for cross referencing dates.
Cheers
Steve McConville

 

If you read Doug’s application to the RAAF, you might have noticed

Occupation: Rough Rider (Showman) Tent Boss and Transport driver
Postal Address: “Wild Australia”, Narrandera NSW.

 

Rather appropriately for ANZAC Day (well here in UK it still is) this item is from New Zealand archives Thorpe McConville Pty Ltd presents an... | Items | National Library of New Zealand | National Library of New Zealand
and mentions Ray McConville, of Wangaratta, Victoria has written and published the McConville history, ISBN 0 64633 686 Xl (which may be the source of the Wild Australia's photos?).
Lancaster Nose Art records ME757 as being named "Rosen Oboe" and there is a Rosen family associated with oboe playing, but whether the reference is play on words to the "Oboe" navigation aid by a crew member with oboe playing knowledge,perhaps a donation by the Rosen family, or some other reason, I have no way of knowing. perhaps a crew member or previous crew were oboeists...?

It just shows how much of a debt we owe to those "Colonials" who answered the call of the Mother Country in WW1 and WW2 especially Gallipoli, the Western Front and indeed in virtually every conflict we needed you. They are not forgotten here, either..

 

Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your kind words. Nice to know the Australian boys are remembered.

You are correct, the photos of F/Sgt D W McConville (aka Thorpe Jnr) are from the book written buy his brother Ray McConville (dec). F/Sgt D W McConville had two other siblings Noel (dec, my father) and June his sister living in Albury, NSW.

The image below, is a letter written (sent home with his belongings) by F/Sgt D W McConville on 12/08/1944. The day before the Brest raid.
It has some noteworthy entries:
June’s big kiss- in the bottom left hand corner.
Pineapple’s £5 5s
and poignantly
“We have done 11 ops now and still going strong”
“I hope it is all over on this side buy Xmas”

Thank you for the nose art information, I think we can see the O on the nose of the photo attached here by Wayne C, but not the nose art?
It would be great to get another picture of the aircraft, or the crew all together. Great photo of the 4 crew at Silverston.

Kind Regards
Steve McConville

 

Steve, are you near the All Saints estate? Son's partner was PR there for a while. Strange to see the castellated brickwork!!
We did the river cruise as well. Son learnt to fly while they were there, as well..
and they lost an uncle, Harry Ward, in 1944 too....

There is no photo of the Rosen Oboe, just a reference to it, but now that the connection is "out there" something may come of it, we can but hope.
Stay well

 

Hi Kevin,
Very interesting about the “Oboe” navigation system, it would appear that the Lancaster’s on occasions might have been ‘guided’ by Mosquito’s that were fitted with it. Hmm.

As you probably know ‘near’ is a relative term in Australia, it’s 280km away, so a bit far to go for an afternoons wine tasting, but ‘not too far away’. We live in Melbourne (atm) but like to spend as much time in NE Victoria/Southern NSW as possible. Most of F/Sgt D W McConville’s relatives live in that part of the world.

Interesting coincidences I must learn how to PM on this, we can compare notes.

Steve McConville

 

Well, you discovered how to use the Personal Message system, Steve!!
In addition, I thought I'd put on the forum another theory for the "Rosen Oboe" nose art name...

The aircraft code letter was "O".... Now, I believe some clever soul not only made the connection to "Oboe" but also had a great deal of musical knowledge.......
Part I
The theremin is an electronic musical instrument controlled without physical contact by the thereminist (performer). It is named after its inventor, Léon Theremin, who patented the device in 1928.
The instrument's controlling section usually consists of two metal antennas that sense the relative position of the thereminist's hands and control oscillators for frequency with one hand, and amplitude (volume) with the other. The electric signals from the theremin are amplified and sent to a loudspeaker.
The sound of the instrument is often associated with eerie situations. Thus, the theremin has been used in movie soundtracks such as Miklós Rózsa's Spellbound and The Lost Weekend, Bernard Herrmann's The Day the Earth Stood Still, and Justin Hurwitz's First Man, as well as in theme songs for television shows such as the ITV drama Midsomer Murders.

So I can understand how an Oboe navigation device operator might hear weird sounds, similar to those of the theremin.....

Part II
Theremin musical instrument. Clara Rockmore was responsible for advancing the artistry of theremin performances but we can thank one of her contemporaries for expanding the instrument into new musical territories. Lucie Bigelow Rosen (1890 - 1968) wife of prominent lawyer, banker and art patron Walter Rosen befriended Theremin around 1930. Under his tutelage she became one of the most skilled thereminists ever to play the original instrument.

So, if our knowledgeable Oboe navigator made the connection of aircraft letter, the electronic feedback in his earphones similar to a theremin, a well known exponent of that instrument was a Rosen....

ROSEN - OBOE aircraft name.... simples (at the time, but a b*gger to solve now!!)

So who was this egghead of a oboe operator?

 

Thought that I would add my bit. This is the memorial in Bardney village to No 9 Squadron. I took these in 1988.