Can we ID this B24 wreck ?

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Owen, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Photos from here.
    Magnum Photos

    FRANCE. Near Reims. 1947. A crashed US bomber in a farmer's field.
    NN11468324_Social_Media_Watermark.jpg

    NN11468323_Social_Media_Watermark.jpg
     
  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Maybe difficult to identify the actual aircraft unless there is a comprehensive B 24 database

    Could be a B 24 which was lost bombing the Reims airfield before the area was occupied but looking into the targets post D Day,it appears that the airfield was attacked by USAAF fighter bomber units in August 1944.

    The airfield was operated by the USAAF from 3 September 1944 but the units based there were the No 440th Troop Carrier and No 313th Fighter Group.

    However B 24s were used as fuel and supply aircraft in order to keep forward units supplied as the Allies rapidly advanced across France.It might be that this aircraft was lost while flying into Reims airfield with these supplies....apparently the aircraft selected were long service aircraft relegated to secondary duties.
     
    Peter Clare likes this.
  3. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Probably a B-24J (Mk.VIII)
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Good lord, just did a general search for 'Wrecked B24 Reims'.
    Beyond my pay grade to pick out from so many, but every time I do something like that it brings home the sheer scale of the carnage among aircraft:
    wrecked b24 - Google Search
     
  5. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    The year is 1947, so does not have to be a wartime crash.
    No apparent damage to bottom panels or any sign of soil pushed up at front or sides, so has not hit the ground with any great force. A few holes which may be bullet holes.
    Engines etc seems to have been savaged with care.
    As no Id numbers visible and no positive identification of the area, a bit hard to say which plane it was.

    Farmers field? More likely part of an old grass airfield with wire fences to contain cattle.
    I suspect its on the edge of an old airfield and was one struck off service and when the yanks pulled out the French farmer gave the clear up men a drink and told them to leave it there cause he could use it as a shed the keep his cattle feed and hay in. :D.
     
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  6. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I tend to agree with your conclusion. It makes perfect sense.
    Regards
    Tom
     
  7. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Fair list here.
    1944 USAAF Serial Numbers

    The cows are Holstein Friesian and by the size of the udder would say the pics were taken between 9 am and midday.:)
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    She has also been in calf for 6 weeks :smug:

    TD
     
    RCG likes this.
  9. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Is the letter L beneath the front turret significant?
     
  10. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    From wiki:

    "After the war, Reims Air Base became a massive aircraft storage depot for surplus (mostly American) aircraft. From Reims, aircraft were sold under the Military Assistance Program to France and other Western European countries; to private individuals, and some to scrapyards for metal reclamation.

     
  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I think the B 24 shown is from wartime.As far as I can ascertain,No B 24s bombers were ever based in continental Europe during the advance into enemy territory or after the collapse of Germany...during the war,the strategy would be for the bomber force to operate in England from established and undamaged airfields.

    Immediately after the war there was an exodus of the USAAF Bomber Groups from Britain accompanied by personnel returning to the States with some B17 Bomber Groups remaining in England until December 1945.As regards the B 24s,the last B 24 bomber left England in early July 1945.

    Regarding the actual aircraft,I think that there is a good possibility that it is associated with Reims airfield.It may have been abandoned and declared struck off charge in that at this stage of the war,it was not worth recovering such aircraft when it was known that a huge surplus existed.Engine spares it might have been taken by those authorised by the French government after the war.

    Overall at the end of the war,the philosophy was to abandon aircraft which were not economical to repair or return to the US....without doubt there was a huge surplus of military aircraft for the US administration to manage even though aircraft contracts were cancelled as the end of the European War was anticipated.
     
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  12. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Blooming good photo though isn't it?
    Thought I'd ask just in case someone posted ''oh that's the famous picture of XYZ & the crews names were ....etc etc''
     
    canuck likes this.
  14. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    I have no idea about it, Owen. With the dearth of identifying marks, it'll be tough going tracing it.
     
  15. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    I believe that this plane was made by the Ford factory at willow run, Michigan and was one of these batch of numbers.

    41-29116 to 29608

    42-50277 to 50354

    42-64432 to 64501


    By referring here pic H-CF 1-20

    http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com/Liberator_ID/Liberator_ID.htm

    A lot of these numbers were planes that crashed in England or exploded over enemy territory.

    Two Crashed in France.

    B-24 Liberator 41-29174 Ambling’ Okie.
    Originally assigned to 44th Bomb Group, 67th Bomb Squadron; transferred to 392nd Bomb Group 17 November 1943. Crashed following midair collision over St Just-en-Chausses, France 18 March 1944. MACR 3320

    B-24 Liberator 41-29177 Ginger.
    Hit by by AA over Ludwigshafen, Germany 26 August 1944, MACR 8471, managed to stay airborne until SaarbrĂĽcken, Germany where after coming under further AA fire, was abandoned by its crew and crashed near Schoeneck, France.

    But not near Reims and would be damaged more.


    So my theory still remains that this plane in late 44 early 45 was battle damaged and managed to land at Reims airfield, or a field nearby, but was so badly damaged it was struck off service and put out to grass so to speak.

    Note specks at top of airfield and grass on the left. Aerial photo Reims Airfield 1947.

    http://www.forgottenairfields.com/france/champagne-ardenne/marne/reims-champagne-s1384.html

    More photos by David Seymour here.

    How Europe was rebuilt after WW2 among rusting tanks and battleships | Daily Mail Online
     
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    :D:D:D

    Mind you I think you should get out more o_O great work :salut:

    TD
     
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