5th.Battalion Black Watch

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Rab, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Rab

    Rab Member

    Hallo,
    I'm a rookie at this, don't even know if I'm writing in the correct place, but I'm looking for a wee bit of advice/guidance.
    I'm trying to gather information on 3133596 Private. James McMurdo 5th.Battalion Black Watch. I've gathered some bits and pieces already. Here's what I have.
    He was killed in action on the 12th.June,1944, at Chateau St.Come, and buried in Ranville War Cemetery, France. He was 28 years old. He was married. His wife, and his mother, lived in Lugar, Ayrshire, Scotland. His father had just died in March 1944.
    I'd like to find out a wee bit more about the action that he was killed in, and after looking at some of the items on various pages of your site, I'm guessing that War Diaries could be informative, but his service records might be a better bet.
    Am I right to think this?
    Rab.
    1944 - James McMurdo - Black Watch - Copy.JPG 1944 - James McMurdo - obit. C.C. 001 - Copy.jpg Killed in Normandy 001.jpg
     
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  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    From the battalions war diary
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  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    James McMurdo is mentioned on the following casualty list along with a number of others of the battalion. this is not a definitive list, just those on that particular report. There seems a small number wounded in relation to those KIA so others will be on previous or subsequent lists.

    Casualty List No. 1493 (Other ranks) dated 8 July 1944
    Killed in Action 12.6.44

    5th Bn Black Watch
    2878831 Burnett Pte W
    3321322 Clarke Pte S
    2986265 Dornan U/L/Cpl M
    3321689 Fisher Pte AS
    2763004 Gilmour Pte F
    2766591 Graham Pte JH
    2937364 Hercus Sjt GG
    14418945 Hill Pte J
    3254618 Jamieson Pte J
    2986675 McAulay A/Cpl GM
    14426357 Mackrell Pte S
    3133596 McMurdo Pte J
    14425877 Orrell Pte G
    2757496 Paterson Cpl WC

    Died of wounds 13.6.44
    2758354 Thomson Pte WG
    2763100 Watt Pte JA

    Wounded Date not reported
    14438376 Jones Pte W
    2764090 Smith Pte C

    Service records a must to get a full picture of his service – are you related?

    Service records
     
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  4. Rab

    Rab Member

    Thanks a million Drew5233.
    A fortnight ago I bought two books, "A Teenager's War" and "Black Watch",
    and between them they tell some of what's in these War Diary pages that you have. It was good to see
    the mention of Lt. J.K. Tocher in your pages. His name is also mentioned in the newspaper clipping.
    I think I'll still send for James McMurdo's Service Record, just to see if there's
    any more details in there.
    Thanks again.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  5. Rab

    Rab Member


    Thanks very much for the reply Tony56.
    I'm not a close relation, I'm from away over the other side of the
    family tree, and down a wee bit! James McMurdo's father was a brother of my great grandfather, so it's
    something like second cousin twice removed.
    Yes, I think I'll try and get his Service Record. Not just to see if there's
    any more details about the action in which he was killed, but also to maybe find out more details of his service
    previous to 1944.
    Thanks again.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

  7. Rab

    Rab Member

    Going by all these bits and pieces, especially on pages 3 + 4 of the War Diary that Drew5233 showed,
    I have a better idea of where and when James McMurdo was killed.
    It sounds like it was during the fighting on the afternoon of the 12th.
    If there are any more details on his Service Record I'll share them when I get them.
    It's a shame that his name does not appear on the village war memorial. Why? I don't know,
    but we might try to rectify that.
    This is a great site. You all know your stuff, and it's good to know you do what you do.
    Thanks again for all the help.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
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  8. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Rab,

    Might be worth emailing the Black Museum in Perth. Home - The Blackwatch You never know what they might have in their archives.

    Have you been using Scotlandspeople for your tree research? ScotlandsPeople
     
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  9. Rab

    Rab Member

    Yes, I use Scotlandspeople for quite a lot of family research, and for other bits of research.
    Had a wee look at the Black Watch museum site last week, but didn't go any further than that.
    I will e-mail them as you suggest, just to see if they have any more details about James McMurdo.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  10. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Hello Rab, talking of books, there are others that are out there that you may not be aware of. The first is, The Spirit of Angus: The War
    History of the County's Battalion of the Black Watch (5th Bn?). It contains 239 pages, & is written by Lt-Col John McGregor.
    The ISBN No is 13: 9780850336504. Prices are around £40, you may be able to get it cheaper. Paper & hardback I think. I don't think there is another book that covers the 5th Battalion. If you find one, then let me know. It will go well with the 6th that I have.

    The other is The History of the 51st Highland Division 39-45, by SALMOND, J.B. It contains 287 pages. 1st Ed. Published by William
    Blackwood & Sons Ltd. There are lots of copy's out there, & they start from £18. No image I'm afraid. Its a good book, & I would
    recommend buying it.

    The other one, is a follow up to the above, with a subsequent History 1945-2013 by Dr Tom Renouf MM . The ISBN is 978-1909238497. Its rather cheap at about £20. At that price, I'm thinking about obtaining a copy.

    Regards
    Stu.
    The Spirit of Angus..jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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  11. Rab

    Rab Member

    Hallo Stu,
    Thanks for the tips on the books. I like the sound of "The Spirit of Angus"
    and I might buy a copy after I see what's in James McMurdo's Service Record,
    if anything.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  12. Rab

    Rab Member

    I've had another look at the Black Watch museum site,
    and they seem to be directing folk's enquiries towards the Service Records.
    So, I'm just going to wait and see what comes back from there first, then if
    it's not very good, I'll maybe try the museum.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  13. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Rab, If you get one Service Record then you will want another! Lets hope you don't have a large tree. Its a expensive game & very addictive. But having said that, it has been a nice past time.I do recall my mums words when she read the Service Records of her Father.
    Having done three, I will not be doing any-more. No more coin on the family tree, never mind my wallet.

    All the best.
    Stu.
     
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  14. Rab

    Rab Member

    Hallo Stu,
    When I started doing family tree stuff a few years ago, I thought it
    would be quite easy, because I thought the surname wasn't too
    common. Since then, I've found out that the McMurdo tree is more
    like a forest!!
    As you say, it can be expensive and addictive, but at the same time
    I find it very interesting, and satisfying.
    I've never sent for a Service Record before, so I'm waiting patiently
    for James McMurdo's to come in the post, with fingers crossed, hoping
    it has details of his movements and perhaps more information about
    his death.
    Aw the best,
    Rab.
     
  15. Rab

    Rab Member

    At last, Pte.James McMurdo's service record arrived in the post today.
    It took over 6 weeks to come through.
    You don't really get much for the £30 charge, and the long wait!
    Don't know what all the abbreviations stand for, but I'll try and find out.
    1. Pte.James McMurdo - service record 001.jpg

    2. Pte. James McMurdo -  service record 001.jpg


    3. Pte. James McMurdo -- service record -- 001.jpg

    4. Pte. James McMurdo  -  service record - 001.jpg

    5. Pte. James McMurdo  - prt. of service record 001.jpg

    6. Pte. James McMurdo  - prt. of service record - 001.jpg
     
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  16. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Rab, I think the entries X(ii) (1942&43) on the last page indicate he was put on the sick list for some reason or other. There's a thread around this site with will help you with the abbreviations. Just use the search engine.
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  18. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Enjoyed reading through this thread. In case you missed these, the CWGC have the attached documents showing when James was moved from Breville Cemetery to Ranville and the other men from his battalion who died around the same time.

    doc2264679.JPG doc2265765.JPG
     
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  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I tried to find a photograph on line that represents James' medal entitlement according to his service records. If you ignore the oak leaf clasp on the War medal depicted in the image below, this group is more or less correct. Also included, a close up of the 8th Army clasp on the Africa Star medal.

    Medal group.jpg 8th Army clasp.jpg
     
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  20. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Hello Rab, I'm not sure if you have yet got round to obtaining The History of The 51st Highland Division 39-45 by J.B. Salmond.?
    After reading the diaries that Andy has posted, I thought I would have a look at the above book. I attach two pages, 141 & 142. Please clock the last paragraph on page141 & onto 142. I've also attached the map.
    Regards
    Stu.

    CCF11052017_0003.jpg
    CCF11052017_0004.jpg
    CCF12052017_0001.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2024

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