Can anyone tell me what J,t,c stands for

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by vespa100, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    IMG_3516.JPG silly question but can anyone tell me what J,t,c stands for
     
  2. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Junior Training Corps
     
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  3. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    The Junior Training Corps (JTC) superseded the schools version of the Officers Training Corps (OTC), in parallel with the Senior Training Corps (STC) superseding the universities version of the OTC. They both developed at the time of WW2, but c 1948 the JTC was itself superseded by the Army section of the Combined Cadet Force (CCF).

    The schools in which these cadet units operated were traditionally public, independent and grammar schools.
     
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  4. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    Cheers gents I have had a few good finds the past couple of weekends, I love this poster I found
     
  5. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    The Prisoners of War who were to benefit from proceeds of the dance would have been German, a large number of whom were still be held in 1948, frequently working on farms. The benefit would probably have taken the form of some Christmas treat.
     
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  6. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    A great poster. But I'm not so sure about it being for German POWs.
    In Aid of the prisoner of war Relief. (Red Cross Parcels) Would it still be called this in 1948?
    The date signed by L/Cpl Clarke B.S. looks to me like 1943. the snag is 14th Dec 43 and 48 are both Tuesdays.
    Where was it being held Allerton Liverpool or Allerton Yorkshire (Nr Bradford) ?
    Who were the Aldo Swingtette?
     
  7. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    A J T C. Certificate.
    War Certificate A ~ WWII Grimsby in Lincolnshire » Rod Collins
    Comment nr bottom of page.
    The Certificate was awarded on completion of a two part test. First was a measure of general fitness with 100yds sprint, standing long jump, running high jump, vaulting, 5-mile walk and “heaving and abdominal”. Part two included drilling, map reading, field intelligence, section leading and gun proficiency with a .22 and a Sten.
     
  8. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    All enquiries to:
    Aldo.jpg
    Nothing about the event in question.
     
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  9. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    Thanks for this great info Rcg I picked this poster in Birkenhead which is just over the water from Liverpool so it could be the Allerton Liverpool
     
  10. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    I would say it is 99% Liverpool. And was on a Notice board inside Liverpool College (Hence it's Survival). Pinned up by three drawing pins (Hole missing bottom left hand corner)
    L.C. situated North Mossley Hill rd / Queens drive.
    The Church hall possibly, St Antony of Padua's Queens Drive.
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...02b71f!8m2!3d53.3804747!4d-2.9222666?hl=en-GB

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...AyvKI0Qdw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en-GB

    Today Liverpool College has an active Combined Cadet Force (CCF) Contingent.

    Liverpool College - Wikipedia
     
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  11. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    What great little bit of history made to be thrown away that I found, It just shows you that little gems are still out there, thanks again Rcg. Do you think its a collectible item in anyway?
     
  12. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    Further thoughts:

    I still read the date below the signature as 5-12-48. This would be consistent with the tone implied by the poster. A dance of this kind in 1943 would have been difficult because of the need for blackout for the whole hall, concern for showing lights as people entered and left, and particippants having to make their way through streets without any lighting.- at a time of year when planning would have to envisage the possibility of snow/ice. There were events during the war, but more low-key than the poster suggests.

    The poster also mentions Refreshments - problematic at a time of rationing. Although rationing continued after the war, things were easier by 1948. For wartime events people were somtimes invited to bring refreshments.

    Allerton, Liverpool, seems right, and if St Antony's is the Parish Church, then Allerton Church Hall, without further description, would fit.

    Liverpool College also fits, and doubtless its present CCF is descended from a former JTC and even ealier OTC. The JTC Certificate A to which a link was given illustrates my point about the JTC being the OTC renamed, in that the rubber stamp used sill bore "Officers' Training Corps", war-time exigencies inhibiting the acquiring of a new one.

    The Aldo Swingtette is likely to have been a band set up within the college.

    The most likely person to have ensured the preservation of the poster is the artist, B S Clarke, or possibly a member of the Swingtette. After his demise there was a clear-out without much thought to ephemera.

    I am sure the Liverpool College archivist would be grateful for a photo. There may well be some reference to the event in the College magazine.
     
  13. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Brief comment on the date: to my opinion it clearly reads as 1943 and not 1948. Apart from that I know from that parties were held also during wartime, and more important the soldiers webbing (especially his pouches) and also the fact that he is wearing a side cap instead of a beret both suggest a wartime date...
     
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  14. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Hate to disagree with you Drayton.
    1943.jpg

    Try writing normally a 3 and an 8, it's impossible to create a 8 the same as image.
     
  15. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    IMG_3518.JPG This is the best I can zoom in, I'am thinking it's 1943
     
  16. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    I take the point about the cap (incidentally, colloquially known to the public as a 'forage cap', but whether that name had any military authority I am not sure), which I confess I had overlooked, and to me now is the clinching factor, since such caps had been superseded by 1948. However, as a matter of interest, the succession was not direct to an ordinary beret, as now; there was a short intervening period of a kind of beret made, like the 'forage cap', from the same khaki cloth as the uniform,

    The 'forage cap' could be unfolded to make a primitive 'balaclava', covering the whole head, except the face, and fastened under the chin with two brass buttons that otherwise served as decoration at the front when the cap was worn normally.
     

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