Good morning and hello from me!

Discussion in 'User Introductions' started by Stephen Dupear, May 23, 2017.

  1. i have just joined the forum as I am investigating my great uncle, Henry Dupear, who was killed in Holland while serving with the 11 royal Scots fusiliers in Nov 44, I know where he is buried, I am in the process of applying for his service records and have a copy of the battalion war diary on its way.

    I am going to visit his grave in Bergen op zoom in June and on his war grave record his original grave is listed as Holland map re 695415 8se 1/25000 - is there a way of finding this location?

    Also, has anyone experience of applying for war service records, the form asks for a death certificate which I do not have, will the records of the cwgc be sufficient?

    Many thanks
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Welcome to the forum.
    I think MoD changed the critieria & you must have a death certificate.
    I applied for one for a chap killed in the war, forgot which department now, I'll look it up.
    Photos of the certificate & service records here.
    Pte S Attley 14685855 4th Wilts Service Records | WW2Talk

    Got certificate from GRO see bit about overseas deaths
    General Register Office certificate application forms - GOV.UK


    Ah , no need to supply death certificate. CWGC info should be ok. Print of his CWGC entry & send that off.
    Request records of deceased service personnel - GOV.UK
    the provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service).

    quick go on here The "Coordinate Translator"
    gives this result. 51° 37' 34''N 4° 24' 26'' E
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51°37'34.0"N+4°24'26.0"E/@51.5442281,4.3369912,8z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d51.6261111!4d4.4072222
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  3. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Good morning and welcome to the forum.

    I can see from your the records of your Gt Uncle on the CWGC website it doesn't have his 'Next of KIn' or a family epitaph on his headstone. As you have his service number and date of death I think that should be sufficient for obtaining the service record.

    Good luck
     
  4. That's brilliant, thanks very much for this, I will send off for his records today and wait for them to arrive
     
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  6. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello and welcome to the forum. MOD records currently take about 3 to 4 weeks.

    Lesley
     
  7. Thanks to everyone for your help.

    I received a reply yesterday from the Army saying their backlog is huge and they would contact me further once they know when they can prioritise my request. I have a copy of the war diary for the battallion which is incredibly interesting and is very informative regarding the action that he was killed in, even though he isn't named.

    The diary contains a map with place names and their code names so I am going to make it up and figure out what he was doing when killed.

    I'm looking forward to heading over there next weekend, none of my family before me has visited him and as an ex-serviceman myself I think I might get a bit emotional.

    once his records arrive I will be able to answer a question regarding his age because the story in the family says he lied about his age to join up so may have been 17 when he was killed
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Stephen

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Henry Duper (Oooooops)
    Given Initials: H
    Rank: Fusilier
    Death Date: 5 Nov 1944
    Number: 14750372
    Birth Place: Sunderland
    Residence: Sunderland
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45
    Regiment at Death: Royal Scots Fusiliers
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Henry Dupear
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Dobson
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1926
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Durham
    Volume Number: 10a
    Page Number: 1242

    If the above is him then he would have been 18+ at the time of his death


    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: Henry Dupear
    Age: 18
    Birth Date: abt 1926
    Death Date: 5 Nov 1944
    Cemetery: Bergenop-Zoom Canadian War Cemetery Nl 82
    Burial Country: Netherlands
    Regimental Number: 14750372
    Region or Memorial: Netherlands
    Other Records:

    TD
     
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  9. Hi everyone, well the wait is over, his service records arrived yesterday and fill in a few gaps in his service I didn't know about, I'm struggling with understanding it so wonder if you fabulous people could help decipher the document which I have attached.

    Looks to me like he went to parachute school, then infantry training then onto the front line on the 1st November 1944 and was killed 4 days later
     

    Attached Files:

  10. I was fortunate enough to visit him in July on my birthday, was a very moving experience, also managed to drive along the route of the operation he was taking part in when killed and find the point where he was killed and initially buried, the war diary for the Royal Scots was incredibly detailed and the map that wa s included was invaluable.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Start a thread in the Service Records section of the forum, put name , number & unit in the title. Members are more likely to see them there than in this User Intro thread.
    Service Records
     
  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    He has no connection to Parachute Reginent.

    I presume you are interpreting 17 PTC acronym as a Parachute Training link but it is actually 17 Primary Training Centre where he would have obtained his 6 weeks initial Military Training whilst part of General Service Corps. The authorities would assess him there and put him in the unit where he could be of best use according to his abilities.

    I see he was transferred to Duke of Wellingtons Regiment in June 1944 where he would have had further advanced infantry training and with whom it would appear he went overseas to North West Europe - presumably to a Base Depot/Reinforcement Holding Unit - prior to his transfer to 11th Battalion RSF 1st November 1944 and his sad death days later.

    There may be more detail about his movements on his Army Form B103 - which Glasgow should have provided - but as he only had 7 months service it may add little to what is on his statement of services form.

    Steve Y
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

  13. I have it.....
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    20/10/44
    THE X (iv) LIST comprises all unposted reinforcements and incoming reinforcement drafts.
    Personnel discharged from (x(ii)) to Training Depots, fit for duty, are transferred to the X (iv) list of
    their corps, until posted to a unit, when they are struck off X (iv) and taken on unit strength.
    Reinforcements in transit between the Base and a unit remain on X (iv) (and the Base Depot
    strength) until they actually reach and are taken on the strength by the unit to which they are
    proceeding. Escaped PoWs [Prisoners of War] who until such escape have been on the X (iii) list
    are transferred to X (iv) list on reaching their respective training depots.


    21/10/44
    The draft RXHOK is simply a code given to all that were going on certain boats (a boarding card code so to speak) so that all men & equipment with the same code ended up on the same ship, it was randomly generated

    5/11/44
    X (ii) Is for all men evacuated on medical grounds beyond the Regimental Aid Post. From there it would depend on the seriousness of the wounds and whether or not they required further treatment or not or as in the case of your Great Uncle he was sadly declared died of wounds (DOW)

    TD
     
  15. The final bit is interesting, he was buried initially on the battlefield, in a place which matched us with the date and position of a contact between 11 RSF and a German position. I presumed he was buried where he fell, do you think this suggests he was moved and received medical care before he died?

    You've been a massive help by the way, it's greatly appreciated
     
  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Thanks for that. That's actually the B102 the Central Registry Index Card rather than the B103.

    In relation to his burial location. He is reported as died of wounds which suggests he passed at least through the Regimental Aid Post.

    His medical papers will be on his file but MOD don't release them.

    Canadian files online have the full medical papers included - often even the Field Medical Card which would have been attached to his uniform at the first point of treatment and subject to updates during the casualty evacuation route to hospital.

    Steve Y
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Its obviously difficult to know exactly what happened, I guess the 2 real scenarios are:

    1. He was killed and buried where he was, but normally they would all have wanted to make the area safe from the sniper and that would have taken some time to sort out

    2. He was shot and either moved immediately or later back to a field station at which point they would have pronounced him DOW

    TD
     
  18. Cheers guys, i guess I've found out as much as I ever will although I am lucky enough to have found a photo of him which I think was during initial training
     

    Attached Files:

  19. sorry, wrong pic.....
     

    Attached Files:

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