E&SE Command W T School 1943

Discussion in 'General' started by DT3, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. DT3

    DT3 Member

    My uncle's army records show that he did a month long course at the above school in February 1943. Can anyone please tell me where this school was and what the W T stands for. Also the course he did was D31 for which he obtained Q1 (DO44/43). Does anyone know what that means please?
    Dave
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi DT3

    Welcome

    Could you scan and then upload the file so that members can read the document and the section, you are trying to decipher, in context. It is usually easier than doing so with just the abbreviations.

    Have you looked through - Updated Resource - Abbreviations & Acronyms

    TD
     
  3. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Ok trying to do that
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Can you show the rest of the page, I cant see his rank, what his regt is, what he was doing etc that might shine some light on the subject

    I assume he was a Sgt at this point

    and it would seem the course was D 31 and connected to the East & South East Command at their W T School which as Owen says might be Wireless & Telegraphy School - it could be he was a Sgt and at the time of the course attached to Royal Signals - or something else.

    TD
     
  6. DT3

    DT3 Member

    He had become a war substantive sergeant in April 1942 with 2nd Batallion of Lincolnshire Regiment. He suffered an injury on 22nd November 1942 which resulted in him being posted to the Y list on 22nd December. I assume he was hospitalised. He was posted back to his Batallion on 19th Jan 1943 then did this course in Feb.
    Thanks for the Wireless and Telegraphy possibility. Had not thought of that.
    On 1st July 1943 he was promoted again as follows : UC/Sgt P (CQMS). Does that fit with Wireless and Telegraphy?
    What I want to know most of all is where was the E&SE Command WT School, and what was it. I know that East Command was at Luton Hoo And SE Command was at Aldershot, but where was the School which they shared?
    Dave
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Dave
    We are also trying to find that same information, but are not coming up with much, hence the need to widen the information coming in to see what else there is and the request to upload the whole of the page.

    CQMS (Company Quartermaster Sergeant) is just a rank in the Army.

    WT could also mean War Training

    He also served in NW Europe otherwise he would not have received the France & Germany Star, so who was he with (regt) after 1943, perhaps that was where he used whatever he learnt from his course i.e. in 1944/1945.

    It can only be guess's at the moment, and am trying to answer your question from another angle

    TD

    edited to add:

    The 1939 to 1945 Star is awarded to personnel who completed operational service overseas between 3 September 1939 and 8 May 1945 (2 Sept 1945 in Far East).

    The France and Germany Star is awarded for operational service in France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands or Germany between 6 June 1944 and 8 May 1945.
    Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility - GOV.UK
     
  8. DT3

    DT3 Member

    I have to say I had assumed WT may be War Training before I posted. I suspect that is more likely than Wireless and Telegraphy.The reason I have not uploaded the rest of the page is that what is there is in plain English and deals with his army service between 1930 and 1937, his next of kin (father and wife) and his children. Another page shows that he was posted to an RHU (Reinforcements Holding Unit) on 21. 4. 44. The exact wording is 41 RHU 103RG X(IV) List.
    He embarked for Normandy 8.6.44 (with the RHU) and was posted (with reversion to WS Sergeant with the comment Surplus to Establishment) on 20.6.44 to the Durham Light Infantry 8th battalion who had arrived Normandy in the Second Wave on D.Day at Gold Beach, Kings Section without casualty. He was posted to them 7 days into their involvement at Villers-Bocage where they had many casualties. They went on to St Pierre la Vieille then rested in Brussels before going to Albert Canal (battle of Geel) on 9.9.44 where he died.
    I have visited the grave.
    Dave
     
  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    If you do an internet search for “command w.t. school” (exactly as it is including “”) you will get a number of results from the Irish Guards war diaries.

    One in particular:
    http://www.ww2guards.com/ww2guards/WELSH_GUARDS/Pages/1st_Bn_Welsh_Guards,_1941.html
    1941 April 2
    Wimbledon
    4 Officers and 4 Other Ranks attended a Demonstration of Explosives and Tank Hunting at Command W.T. School, OLD BURY HILL, DORKING.


    I appreciate this doesn’t mention E&SE but does it suggest War Training/Tactics etc as previously mentioned?
     
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  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Deleted post - duplicate


    TD
     
  12. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Tony, thank you. Brilliant finds.
    That explains why E and SE Commands were used in a combined sense, and it looks like the WT was probably something like War Training School.. If there was only one(???) it looks like it was at Dorking. Reading between the lines it would seem that before SE Command came into being, the Dorking WT School was in East Command. That boils down to a lot of good, albeit circumstantial evidence for it. I guess I will never know what the month long course was.
    Thank you. That completes the picture I have been preparing for his daughter (my cousin) who was orphaned (age 4) by his death.
    Thanks to everyone for your input.
    Regards, Dave
     
  13. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Dave, be careful, I was not suggesting that this WAS the E&SE Command, just some suggestions for further research - could be a red herring (but agree it looks interesting)!!
     
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  14. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

  15. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Tony, reading the details of your finds shows me that BEFORE SE Command came into being there was a S Command(Aldershot) and an E Command (Luton Hoo). SE command was formed (with a new base at Reigate) from what Aldershot had plus those parts of the old East command which were south of the Thames. For me that is a good reason to suppose that a Command WT School would "belong to both" in those early days. I am now reading "E&SE Command WT School" as " the WT School that is shared by East Command and South East Command". Sorry I did not explain that better before.
    Dave
     
  16. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  17. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Brilliant. Weapons Training. And I see that a man from W Yorkshire regiment sent a postcard from there saying it was his temporary home. So a man from the Lincolns was just as likely to be there for a short stay. It all fits nicely.
    Thank you so much
     
  18. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Good Morning again, and thank you again. While writing up all the findings I came across another detail which I had not previously spotted for which I am seeking help. Attached is a scan of another page of the Army Records. It is mainly self explanatory. Mobilised September from Reserve, posted to Labour Corps York then back to Depot (Lincoln). He was posted to 6th Batt on 18. 4 1940 then to "50" on 7.6.1940 then to 2nd Batt on 9.6.1940. What does "50" mean?. Tantalisingly I have found that the 6th Battalion Lincolns embarked for France "in April (cannot find an exact date) and got back later through Dunkirk". Was that before the mass evacuation? I know that the Dunkirk evacuation was complete on 3rd June
    Does this mean that my uncle was at Dunkirk, albeit briefly and got out very early ? There is no indication in the record that he embarked in 1940. What can "posted to 50" mean?
    I know that the 2nd Battalion Lincolns was mostly captured at Poperinge which might explain his tranfer to them on 9th June.
    Hope you can help with this one
    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    There was a 50th Bn Lincolns. Ask ramacal , he has alot of info on Lincs Regt.

    62 AT Regiment - Sergeant P. White - Wounded.
     
  20. DT3

    DT3 Member

    Owen, thanks. A very simple explanation. On thinking about it I guess the only way to be certain about whether he went in and out of France in April/MayJune 1940 would be to get the dates from the 6th Battalion War Diaries. It must have been a time of great confusion.
    Dave
     

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