Family mystery - Help Required

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Crocks4312, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. Crocks4312

    Crocks4312 New Member

    Dear All,

    If this is the wrong forum, then apologies.

    My paternal great grandfather served in the 2nd World War. I have a copy of his records which I will attach. The mystery is that there are medals missing and i'm unsure of some of his movements during WW2. This is due to the fact that in his personal effects is a named invitation to the opening of Stirling Lines (22 SAS). His date in Europe also shows that he was in France on the 2nd June, not 6th June. There is also the fact that he has done a year in Palestine post war, but doesn't seem to have been awarded the Palestine GSM. Should he also have been entitled to the Defence Medal as well as the War Medal? He was a Driver, RASC, but also seems to have been airborne.

    Basically - I'm looking to try and get a set of replicas mounted to go alongside mine and other relatives, as well as filling in this gap in the family history.

    Thanks in advance,

    Crocks
     

    Attached Files:

  2. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Google claiming ww2 medals, its a dot gov site

    Download the medal form and fill it in, if you are not next of kin you will need them to sign the form,

    Send off to mod

    They will confirm what and when medals issued, if any were not eg Palestine medal then they will issue

    I claimed my grandfathers defence medal last year as this was never issued with his other medals and helped claim my cousins defence war and gsm Palestine medals 2 yrs ago

    Mistakes were made 70 yrs ago hence why you can still apply as nok
     
  3. redtop

    redtop Well-Known Member

    My fathers records show him as leaving UK on 2nd June before D Day.
    In fact this was the day his unit embarked the Landing Craft.
    They stayed on board then whether in harbour or at sea I do not know ,but his unit actually landed on the evening of the 6th.
     
  4. Crocks4312

    Crocks4312 New Member

    I know I can't exactly ring up Hereford and ask if theres a connection! Is there an official channel that can be gone through?
     
  5. redtop

    redtop Well-Known Member

    You might try SAS Association web page.
     
  6. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Had a quick look at the records, can find no obvious connection to SAS however there must be to have received an invite, but as this was in 1984, it's not necessary a connection which happened during the war.
    We know a lot of people received these invitations as the one you have is no 00589.
    00496 is also an interesting one. It invites 5 people.
    Viewing Image: Stirling Lines invitation - Special Forces - Roll Of Honour
    Who appeared to have attended.
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Have you searched for him on the WW2 Casualty Lists on FMP? If he is shown re his injury Nov 1944 it will likely show his unit.

    Is there a Medal Office stamp on his statement of service/attestation papers portion of his record. Usually shows Medal Entitlement & date of issue. IIRC Usual requirement for Defence Medal entitlement is 3 years service in U.K. (or 18 months in areas subject to bombing - which may not have been an issue during his UK service?) - as he had less than that period of service when he went to NWE he wouldn't appear to be entitled? However you may wish to apply as Defence Medal entitlement rules are quite complicated.

    I've seen records for Canadians who came to U.K. in 1940 and stayed until D Day who received Defence Medal (based in south of England during regular 1940/41 bombing raids) but Canadians who came later, in 1942/43, and spent a shorter period in U.K. before going to Italy or NWE didn't get Defence Medal.

    The only hint at SAS/Airborne service I can see is an entitlement to airborne pay shown on his B103 in March 1946 with MELF - after SAS disbanded.

    Is there any chance he served in SAS (TA or Regular) after post war 1948 reconstitution of the Regiment or perhaps he got his invitation as he had a civilian job connected to Hereford?

    Steve Y
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  8. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Quick question this appears to be your great grandfather.
    Richard William Chivers
    Birth Date: 13 Oct 1923
    Date of Registration: Feb 1998
    Age at Death: 74
    Registration district: Bristol
    Inferred County: Gloucestershire
    Yet the invitation is addressed to a Mr W Shivers.
     
  9. Crocks4312

    Crocks4312 New Member

    Steve, no idea on civilian job at all.

    RCG - I'm aware of the typing error. He was known as William/Bill, and I think its too much of a coincidence not to be related between the spellings Shivers and Chivers. Chivers is/was prounced "Shivers" in our family. The death above is him as well.

    I'm writing to the Regimental Association now. Does anybody know the qualifying rules on the Palestine medal?
     
  10. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Thanks, that would confirm that it was a more personal invitation, than a regimental one.
     
  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Wikipedia says qualifying service in Palestine (territory of British Mandate) during State of Emergency between 27th Sept 1945 and 30th June 1948.

    General Service Medal (1918) - Wikipedia

    Aren't GSM medal rolls until 1948 on Ancestry or is it FMP?

    Steve Y
     
  12. Crocks4312

    Crocks4312 New Member

    What's FMP?

    Also...would his records seem to suggest he should have had the Palestine GSM?
     
  13. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Write to the M O D they will tell you what medals he is/was entitled to and if they were issued as he maybe outside area of operations or did not have enough service time
     
  14. bofors

    bofors Senior Member

  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    According to Ancestry there are only 2 x Chivers in RASC that were awarded for Palestine 1945 - 1948 and they are:

    P L Chivers Royal Army Service Corps Palestine

    B L G Chivers Royal Army Service Corps Palestine

    He would obviously be too young to have been there in the earlier date range 1936 - 1939

    The info above comes from UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

    About UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
    This database contains lists of more than 2.3 million officers, enlisted personnel and other individuals entitled to medals and awards commemorating their service in campaigns and battles for the British Army between 1793 and 1949. The original medal rolls were compiled by the War Office and are housed at the National Archives of the UK in Kew, Surrey. The rolls include medals awarded for British campaigns in Europe, India, Egypt, Sudan, South Africa, West and Central Africa, China, the Middle East, and elsewhere during the height of the British Empire. The collection does not include WWI or WWII medal and award rolls.

    TD
     
  16. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Do t forget time spent in hospital does not count towards qualifying time, I believe you had to have 180 days operational service

    Also if he had left service prior to it being issued then he would have had to apply for it

    I helped a friend claim their fathers defence war and Palestine 45-48 RAF medals last year. He would not appear on roll as medal had not been issued
     

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