13th Kings (Liverpool) Regt

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by TheFos, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hello,
    I am researching my uncle's war service. He was 4466746 Pte Cyril Mathew Gallagher, of 13th Kings (Liverpool) Regt. He died in Burma 3 Mar 1943 and is remembered on the Rangoon Memorial Myramar. I would like to know how and where he died. If anyone has a copy of the war diaries of the regiment I would be interested in any details about what happened on 3 Mar when he was killed.
    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hello Bryan,

    Your Uncle Cyril was a commando in the 77th Indian Infantry Brigade, a unit of soldiers that became known as the Chindits. The Chindits were the creation of Brigadier Orde Charles Wingate and went behind Japanese lines in Burma in February 1943 and then again on a separate mission in March 1944.

    Cyril had served originally with the Durham Light Infantry, before being sent to India and joining Chindit training at a place called Saugor in late 1942. He was posted into the Commando Platoon for Chindit Column No. 2. This was mainly comprised of Gurkha troops and so he would have been one of only a handful of British soldiers in the column numbering some 400 men in total. The Chindit expedition in early 1943 was called Operation Longcloth.

    The Commando Platoons in 77 Brigade were used mainly in the act of demolition in Burma, blowing up railway lines and bridges, which was their brief in 1943. Column No. 2 was part of Southern Group, whose main purpose on Operation Longloth was to create a diversion for the other section (Northern Group) and openly operate inside Burma to attract the Japanese to investigate their presence. This allowed Northern Group to move quickly to its own objectives in blowing up the Mandalay-Myitkhina railway.

    The War diaries for the 13th King's, as far as I have ever seen, do not mention the British men who served in Gurkha Columns during Operation Longcloth and I have never read Cyril's name in any of these documents I have come across. However, knowing he was a member of Column No. 2 and his reported date of death on the CWGC website, I believe he was killed during, or as a consequence of an ambush that Column 2 suffered at a place called Kyaikthin.

    I have mentioned your uncle on one of the pages of my website dedicated to the men of Operation Longcloth. The page is in reference to all those soldiers from the DLI that served on the first Wingae expedition. Here is the link to that page:

    DLI Commandos

    If you use the search engine at the top right hand corner of any page on my website and enter Kyaikthin, it will give you some understanding of what happened on that fateful night (March 2nd).

    I'm at work presently and cannot access my files, when I get home I will search out the only document I possess with Cyril's name on it and place it here on your post. Obviously, I would be extremely interested in learning more about him from you and the family and hopefully, might be able to add his story to the website in time.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  3. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi Steve,
    Thank you very much for your reply. Firstly I didn't expect to get so much information in such a short time. Secondly, I am surprised to hear his story and to learn of his bravery. I have served with the Gurkhas too so I know how they operate
    I will pass this story to his relatives and if I can send you a private message, I will forward some detail of his background.
    Regards,
    Bryan
     
  4. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Bryan,

    Here are the only two things I can give you in relation to Cyril. Firstly, the nominal roll for No.2 Column Commando Platoon. His surname is misspelled Gallagher, but christian name initial and Army number are correct. Then Face 5 of the Rangoon Memorial showing Cyril's inscription. I also know that he enlisted into the Army in 1940, from this website:

    http://powbooks.atspace.co.uk/page215.html

    There is a book written by a survivor of Kyaikthin and Operation Longcloth; It is called Safer than a Known Way by Ian MacHorton. This gives a vivid account of the ambush and the devastation to No. 2 Column.

    I'll send you a pm message if it is easy that way.

    Steve

    No. 2 Column Commando.JPG KR 3OF6 copy.jpg
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Bryan,

    I thought you might like to see photos of some of the other members of No. 2 Column Commando Platoon. Sadly, all these men were also casualties from Operation Longcloth.

    Steve

    Barnes Albert.jpg Boyce James.jpg Bradley Ernest.jpg McIntyre William  large copy.jpg
     
  6. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi Steve,
    Thanks once again. I haven't cracked the method of sending/receiving private messages yet.
    Once I do, I can send you a little more info on Cyril. In the next few weeks, I will be meeting a cousin I haven't seen for over 50 years and I am hoping he can update me which of Cyril's descendants are still alive and maybe put me in touch.
    Till then I will keep researching the your tips.
    Bryan
    Hi Steve,
    Thanks for the photos. I have had a look at the website and found it very interesting.
    Bryan
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Bryan

    Go to the top right hand corner, place the cursor over your username and you will see various options, one of those is 'Conversations' select this then select 'Start a new conversation' - in Participants type in Bamboo43 (or anyone else you want) put in a title, type your message and press 'start' to send it

    Have sent one to you see 'Inbox' top right hand corner

    TD
     
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  8. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Bryan,

    I've sent you a private message, this should come through as an alert on the forum and as an email to your given address when you joined the forum.

    Steve
     
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Bryan,

    Another small piece of information for you. According to the DLI record books, Cyril was transferred to the 13th King's from the Yorks and Lancs Regiment on the 16th July 1942. There seems to have been a fairly substantial group of former Durham's with the Y&L's at that time.

    Steve
     
  10. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi Steve,

    That is mystery as Cyril was born in Sunderland, so I could understand if he was in the DLI, but where are the Yorks and Lancs based?

    Bryan
     
  11. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Men were swapped about all the time during WW2. My grandfather, a Londoner born in Hampstead was originally posted to the 9th Devon's in 1940, before being transferred to the 13th King's on arrival in India. I think many of the wartime raised battalions like the 9th Devon's, 16th DLI and so on, were disbanded as time went on during the war and many of the men from these were concentrated into other units.

    I think what then happened, especially in the case of India bound troops; was that they all congregated at Deolali Reinforcement Centre, before being allocated to their next posting. What would be most interesting is to find out whether Cyril had trained/served as a Commando before his arrival in India.
     
  12. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Steve,

    Can't answer the training question but I may apply for his records from the MOD some time later. Will let you know if I find out.

    Regards,

    Bryan
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Bryan,

    I thought I would just say hello and wondered if you had found anything out about Cyril and his life before WW2.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  14. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi Steve,

    I have been unable to locate Cyril's descendants. I wrote a letter to the last address I had but it was returned as 'Not known at this address'. I have contacted a recently found cousin and asked him to see if he can help. I will let you know if I am successfull.

    Regards,

    Bryan
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Bryan

    You mean this Cyril Gallagher

    Cyril Matthew Gallagher
    1910–1943
    BIRTH APRIL 1910 • Sunderland Southwick, Durham, England
    DEATH 3 MAR 1943 • Burma, India

    [​IMG]

    Another tree has him as :
    Cyril Matthew Joseph Gallagher
    1910–1943
    BIRTH JUN 1910 • Sunderland
    DEATH 3 MAR 1943 • Burma


    Not sure if you know this but he married and had 2 children, perhaps its these you need to follow

    Name: Margaret P Gallagher
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Eltringham
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1937
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Durham
    Volume Number: 10a
    Page Number: 935

    Name: James M Gallagher
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Eltringham
    Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1938
    Registration district: Marylebone
    Inferred County: Greater London
    Volume Number: 1a
    Page Number: 651

    If you need more just ask

    TD
     
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  16. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi TD,

    Yes, I already have those details on my family tree. It is just a matter of finding their current addresses. My cousin in Sunderland is investigating.

    Regards,

    Bryan
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Bryan

    Have you thought about contacting the creators of the family trees ??

    So I assume you have Margarets married name/details

    If yes to both - I'll shut up and make out I never posted this

    TD
     
  18. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Bryan,

    Thanks for letting me know.:)
     
  19. TheFos

    TheFos Member

    Hi TD

    The family tree is one I created and yes I know Margaret's husband. I have not found any of the family on electoral rolls or in the Sunderland phone directory but my cousin is trying from his end as I don't live up there.

    Regards,

    Bryan
     

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