Dunkirk: The New Evidence - C4 Sun 2nd July 8PM

At least new TV/Film programmes keep the history alive.
If I had a pound for each time I have stopped to photograph a memorial or WW2 related item then followed by a group of people staring at me then starting to read the details on the said object,then asking me questions about it,I would have a few bob.

 

Well known that those in a RAF uniform got some stick from those in the Army after Dunkirk.

Looking to watching this on Catch up.

 

Here is an extract from the War diary of my Father In Law's (2nd/Lt Edward Lynch RASC serving with 6th MAC) unit

"Place: Hollandshaw Farm or Wood. Date 26th May 1940
Time 05.00 - saw the first enemy plane shot down by A.A. fire during the last 10 days. Did not know so many troops were about. The place is ringing with cheers and it continues half an hour later.
Time 05.30 - About half a dozen Spitfires or Hurricanes appear from nowhere, also the first seen for 10 days or so. They bring down a couple more bombers. The morale of the men has been excellent, but now they are bubbling over with glee.
Time O6.50 - A second section under 2nd Lt. Lynch is sent to Crombeke to continue with the evacuation of No 10 C.C.S. "

So it seems some of the Army were quite pleased to see the RAF in action even then.

 

Not much new stuff to me.
Some of the "archive film" was from "The Battle ofBritain" and "Dunkirk" films.
No mention of the Coastal Command aircraft working just offshore.
However....... No Tiger or Panther tanks to be seen anywhere!
They tried.

Lawrence

 

Finally watched it tonight. I've posted my thoughts on my France and Flanders FB page and thought I'd cut and paste them on here for what it is worth:

So I finally got to watch the programme tonight and first and foremost I was very happy to see some veteran interviews on the programme that this page helped to find, despite some saying it couldn't be done. So a big thank you for those that answered the call when I asked for help.

By way of a thank you if all the families that contacted myself or Paul Reed via email to nominate their fathers/grandfathers/great grandfathers contact me again I will send you a copy of their units BEF 1940 war diary covering their time in France from 1939 to evacuation in may/June 1940 for free of charge.

As for the programme itself there is no coincidence that it was in my opinion prompted with the release of Nolan's new movie this month, indeed the movie trailer featured in the first bout of adverts. I have mixed feelings on the programme and I watched it in two modes with my Mrs's as the layperson and as myself, the self confessed Dunkirk obsessive to try and remain objective...

My Mrs's enjoyed it greatly and throughout commented with remarks like, 'Oh look we've been on that beach,' 'Is that the ship you swam out to,' 'Is that the Mole we walked on at 4am and watched the sun come up' 'That's the cemetery where Jacob saluted the soldiers'. That alone from someone who hates being dragged on my Dunkirk expeditions speaks volumes in itself so I can see why on Twitter there was a lot of very positive traffic regarding the programme, my phone didn't stop beeping last night at work. I suspect though in the majority this was from people with a little to average amount of knowledge on Dunkirk. That I think is a good thing, if it spikes peoples interest in what I view as a mainly forgotten and ignored part of the war then I have no problem with that.

For me though I'm divided, whilst I enjoyed it to a degree, its a TV programme about Dunkirk after all and when did that last happen? I felt, like some I've spoken to, the programme could have been so much better, it left me feeling that possibly Channel Four missed a trick and more importantly an opportunity to highlight all three services efforts rather than focusing mainly on what the RAF did. I've not seen Dunkirk yet but I think Nolan has realised this and has three sub-stories running within the film, one on each service.

Firstly on a positive note there was some footage and images in the programme I've never seen before which caught my attention greatly. Normally we see incorrect footage about Dunkirk in documentaries, normally a Tiger tank charging down the road. From what I could see it was all date appropriate with the possibility of a little Poland footage.

The interviews with the vets were great, after all they lived it, but I would have liked to have known what unit they were serving with rather than 'Dunkirk Veteran' showing. Dunkirk was predominately an Army affair so I found it odd not to see or hear more about that. It was also nice to see the Royal Navy mentioned in the way of Wakeful and Crested Eagle albeit with some of the key information about their stories missing and some of it being factually incorrect. Crested Eagle and Devonia were two of the subjects I first studied when I got addicted to all things Dunkirk so she has a soft spot in my heart so much so I swim out to her every five years an attach a poppy cross to her.

As for the RAF, my weakest subject, there was not any new evidence for me. It was only a few months ago, ironically, I posted some of Bartley's recollections and as some have already stated Norman Franks book Air Battle for Dunkirk which has recently been republished covers the RAF role at Dunkirk very well. Personally I use After the Battles Battle of France as my main reference book for all things air related and its all in there as far as I'm concerned.

The two biggish historical errors for me though were quoting RAF sorties dated on the 23rd May 1940 from Bartley's Log Book and Diaries. Operation Dynamo didn't start to the 26th May so whilst they prove the RAF were mixing it up with the Luftwaffe it's totally irrelevant to what the programme was trying to prove. The other, arguable, historical fact was the reason for Hitler's Halt Order on the 24th May 1940. Whilst there are numerous theories as to why this happened the theory of Goering persuading Hitler to let the Luftwaffe finish the BEF off is not one of them.

So all things considered I enjoyed the programme, I just wish there was the budget for three episodes, one on each service to balance it out. I can still remember being in Dunkirk for the first time in my life in 2003 on my first and last battlefield tour with my Squadron. I know now that it wasn't very historically accurate but it left me wanted to know more. 14 Years on and god knows how many trips to France and Belgium I like to think that some of the one point something million that tuned in to watch the programme last night will get the Dunkirk bug like me-That can only be a good thing and help keep the 'Dunkirk Spirit' alive for future generations long after I'm gone.

 

Regarding the attitude to the RAF uniform,there is ample anecdotal evidence that the RAF uniform also drew insults from the civilian population during the London blitz.

I have also seen in the past where a witness stated that one officer lost his head on the beaches and acted irrationally but this behaviour would be rare but is typical when individuals are subject to extreme stress.

As regard to the documentary,I do not think it revealed anything new as Operation Dynamo has been well covered over the years....the availability of those who were there are rapidly being rundown....still worth watching.

Dowding himself had the overall priority of ensuring the defence of the UK was of paramount importance in deploying fighter squadrons to the evacuation area....not forgetting the input from Bomber Command and Coastal Command who were also involved in reducing the impact of the Blitzkrieg on the evacuation.

Even the obsolescent Defiant which the Luftwaffe sometimes mistook for the Hurricane proved its worth against bomber formations,downing 65 enemy aircraft but was outclassed by the Luftwaffe single seater fighter. Operation Dynamo was also the finale in the case of the Stuka,Later when it ran up against the Spitfire and Hurricane in the Battle of Britain,it was proved to be inadequate without support.......its early success in the Polish and French campaigns where the Luftwaffe had overwhelming air superiority were not to be repeated.

 

Not knowing a great deal on Dunkirk I enjoyed it

 

As Drew5233 pointed out the motive behind the production for this doc came from Nolan's film coming out this year. As you may have seen over the past few years from 2010 Channel 4 has been producing fewer history documentaries. I think it is along the lines of one or two a year now. Channel 4 will now only produce a History documentary if it will turn up on the pages of the Daily Mail which was told to me by commissioners at the channel.

I have not had the chance to watch the doc yet but though it made an interesting difference focusing on the RAF's role at Dunkirk. It is a shame Channel 4 have cut down their history docs, just going through their back catalogue they have a sea of excellent programmes; which are now only made if they are retweed on twitter, liked on facebook and commented on in the newspapers.

 

Looks like Dan Snow is aiming to start a history channel with crowd funding

 

Surprise Spitfire saves the day - Wow

Could of mentioned the last real successes of the Defiant gun turret fighter, before the Luftwaffe successfully worked out how to shot them down !

 

Out of the 44 or so minutes of the documentary (minus the ads) maybe 10 minutes or so spent on the role of the RAF away from the beaches?
A lost opportunity in my opinion...

 

Dan Snow is a multi millionaire he could pay for the History channel himself.

 

I can't help but think it will be ok for people who have lots of money to spend, like celebrities etc.
So if you have 30k, you can have a WDYTYA type of programme to research your family-so only for the rich then

 

To be fair most of these crowdfunding efforts have similar pricing structures. Small pledge in this case gets you a credit and then ramps up. I pledged money to a couple of bands to fund cds and it was the same - basic pledge gets you a signed copy of a cd, next level is additional merchandise (usually signed again) all the way up to a meet and greet and chance to go on stage. Nobody is forced to splurge megabucks and I imagine very few will have the spare moolah to go for the big pledges - most will go for basic or mid-level but there has to be some incentive to get people to part with big amounts.

I'm sure Dan not hurting for money but what he's trying to do would require serious amounts of dosh.

"HistoryHit.TV is a global video-on-demand history channel. It will be available on all of your devices, anywhere on the planet. Think of it like Netflix, but dedicated to world history. We'll bring you the best collection of great history documentaries. We'll also produce original seasons that will cover historical subjects in more depth than you've ever seen before. We believe history should be available to everyone so 10% of our annual profits will go to education projects around the world."

Anyway - the point is moot as he has reached his goal. Biggest pledge was £5,000 which gets you a documentary commissioned on a subject of your choice. Only two people gave this amount. Most people pledged between £5 and £25.

 

I say Sir, Do I detect a growing interest into all things Dunkirk?

 

So if successful we have a TV channel with lots of cheap historic content. Who owns the copyright and would have the rights to distribute tsaid content on different platforms - say as an add on to netflix?

 

Probably not the 'investors'. Use their money to make the programmes, then make your money by syndicating them. Wish I'd thought of it!