seeking detailed Pics of a Besa MG

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Old Git, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Old Git

    Old Git Harmless Curmudgeon

    Can anyone point me to a publication with good pics, (properly reproduced) of the BESA. Both sides, top and most importantly bottom as well. I've scoured the net and my own references and all the shots I've found are fairly grainny and lacking in detail... I'm probably looking at a trip to Bovington if no-one can help.

    Rgds

    Pete
     
  2. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    A few Files in The National Archives regarding Firing Trials of 7.92mm and 15mm.
    File descriptions do not indicate there are photos but you never know.


    Brian
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Have you got the old David Fletcher HMSO 'Vehicle history & specification' on the Churchill?
    Some quite clear official illustrations of the BESA in there, I'd be happy to scan them in for you later today.

    ~A
     
  4. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    These are from the original Churchill VII manual Pete, seem to be the standard 'official' illustrations as the same ones appear in the Cromwell manual:
    (Shrunk the filesize so some detail is lost, but left them as very large images. Keep clicking on them to expand to full size)
    View attachment 24169
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Old Git

    Old Git Harmless Curmudgeon

    Thanks everyone for the feedback (what a superb forum) I have a lot of these drawings already and what I wanted really was very clear 360 degree pictures of a MkII or Mk III... something that would allow me to pick out detail. Smudger Jnr great link and very interesting in it's own right, especially the tripod...thats got to be the third version of a tripod for that particular weapon that I've seen in as many days. The detail in these pics are great but why, oh why hasn't anyone ever done this for the poor old Besa MkII and MkII. Surprising that there are so few clear pictures of the Besa around the net, after all it was an important weapon in the Armoured divisions and yet it gets such little attention when so many other weapons have been photographed to death... Probably because they are always mounted in Cromwells or Churchills etc. I shall have to rectify this sorry state of affairs when next I get down to Bovington.

    Von Poop I haven't seen those pics before, which is interesting because I believe I do have the Churchill manual somwhere. That second picture especially has really cleared up a grey area for me re the wedge shaped mounting for the coaxial mount in the Cromwell. Brilliant! Now I'm off to the PRO site, thanks Adm199.
     
  7. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Always found it interesting that BSA didn't modify the ZB 53 based Besa for .303 like they did with the ZBG 33 and the Bren. Looks like they just ran out of time before the war began.

    Besa machine gun - Wikipedia

    Although Britain's armed forces used the .303 in rimmed round for rifles and machine guns, the ZB-53 had been designed for the German 7.92×57mm Mauser round – referred to by the British as the 7.92mm. Although it had been intended for the British to move from rimmed to rimless ammunition generally, with war imminent wholesale change was not possible. It was considered by BSA and the Ministry of Supply that the industrial, technical, and logistical difficulty of converting the design to the .303 round would be more onerous than retaining the original calibre, especially given that the chain of supply for the Royal Armoured Corps was already separate from the other fighting arms of the British Army. As a consequence, the round was not changed for British production. Since the Besa used the same ammunition as Germany used in its rifles and machine guns, the British could use stocks of captured enemy ammunition.
     
  8. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Britain did not adopt the rather complicated looking ZB 53 tripod, but the BESA would fit on the protean Vickers mount. Here it is. 6898170893_0b343615c1_z.jpg
     
    rick wedlock and Dave55 like this.
  9. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Just a little note about the Besa. There was a gap in British infantry armament between the section-level Bren and the medium Vickers. The US Army filled the gap between the BAR and the M1917A1 Browning medium gun with the M1919A4 and M1919A6 light aircooled Browning guns, but the British never found an equivalent. The Besa would not have been the answer. It was aircooled, but at 47 lbs it was not light; on a Vickers tripod it weighed even more than a Vickers Mark I.
     
  10. robins2

    robins2 Active Member

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