Manifest MV Samhern Sept 1944

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Sussex by the Sea, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Folks,
    I am looking for the manifest of MVSamhern Sep 1944, this ship contained the Second Echelon of the OP Market Garden Seaborne tail. Would anyone know where i start please?

    Regards

    Steve
     
  2. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Can you check the spelling of that ship please Steve, I don't see it in my lists?

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hugh

    There are several references to her in - 1st Airlanding Brigade, Seaborne Tail towards the bottom of the page


    The 2nd Seaborne Parties left TILBURY in M.V. "SAMHERN" after midday 22nd Sept.


    23rd to 30th September 1944
    2nd Seaborne parties of the Div remained aboard M.V. "SAMHERN" all during this period, no personnel or vehicles being disembarked. With the return of the Airborne Element of the Div to the U.K., the M.V. "SAMHERN" left the anchorage off the NORMANDY BEACHES on 29th Sep and took the 2nd Seaborne Parties back to TILBURY, which was reached on the evening of 30th Sept.


    TD

    Added:
    Presume Motor Vessel Samhern
     
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  4. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Yes i have seen the pegasus archives article on the 2nd Seaborne Echelon. I was wondering where i could find the manifest naming all the individuals on board for OP Market Garden.

    I think that is the correct spelling Hugh.

    Steve
     
  5. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Still think it's a typo. There was a SAMEARN but I am not convinced that is the right ship either. Do you have any further information apart from the link posted by TD?
    Hugh
     
  6. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    No Hugh, i read about it in a book about the 7th Kings Own Scottish Borderers and the reference to the MV Samhern and the second echelon of the seaborne tail. Do you have a manifest to the Samearn, the spelling Samhern may be incorrect. The Manifest will be mainly 4th Parachute Brigade and Airlanding Brigade personnel.

    Steve
     
  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Not so straight forward I am afraid Steve.
    As a general rule you will not find lists of military personnel within MN records apart from perhaps those traveling in small numbers as passengers on passage.
    The ship's official logbook may make mention of some units embarked or commanders but it would be a very long shot. Perhaps the unit War Diary maybe the first place to look.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  8. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Thanks Hugh.

    Steve
     
  9. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Samvern?
     
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  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    This is probably the ship Roy.
    Departed Seine Bay, Sep 30, 1944 convoy FTM.8A arrived Southend Oct 1, 1944.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  12. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    I do not think a manifest, loading table etc. would list individuals. Best bet would be the appendices to War Diaries. I have seen a couple that list all personnel in movement orders etc. Each unit would have made such lists but very few have been kept.

    Mike
     
  13. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    The typical loading for MT ships (of which the Liberty ship Samvern was one) in June 1944 was about 580, (on a ship called Derrycunihy, others less -see next message?) troops, their vehicles, stores, equipment and fuel (at that time mostly petrol). It could be that this loading continued, but I have never seen a manifest or cargo plan for ships of that period - that is not to say that there aren't any, of course
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  14. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    A bit more about the Normandy fleet:
    Almost 300 ships had been selected as Mechanised Transport ships (elsewhere named Motor Transport or Military Transport ships). As previously stated the primary function of many was to carry 480 men and 120 vehicles. Other cargoes included petrol, spares, and rations. These ships came, in equal numbers, from the Americans and the British. Bulk oil tankers were also employed to ship petrol and water.

    Staff at the Ministry of War Transport and its US equivalent drew up plans for cargo stowage on the MT vessels, so that each ship would have similar combinations of cargo for the assault phase. They were aided by the fact that a large proportion of the cargo ships were of similar size and layout, with 10,000 tons deadweight (carrying capacity). The loss of a ship, or ships, would not leave the forces on the Far Shore short of any one commodity and ships could be discharged on arrival. This became known as ‘balanced loading’. The idea being that the ships that survived a particularly hazardous journey, such as the ones to besieged Malta, would bring at least a percentage of all the desperately needed supplies. Balanced loading had then been used for landings in the Mediterranean. One source says that that idea was the result of bitter experience in the Norwegian campaign of 1940, where our troops were enduring almost continual attack from the air. In one instance, desperately needed anti-aircraft guns were delivered, but the ship carrying the ammunition had been sunk.
     
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  15. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    The SS Samvern ran into a mine of 18-1-1945, however, some source say in the Schelde Estuary, which seems to be Dutch, others say for the Belgian Coast at Oostende, is there an evidence about the location? , searched the net and there as a divers site which say that they located the stearn at the belgium coast, but wonder how correct this would be.
     
  16. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Philip,
    Lloyds War Losses Vol I states she was sailing Antwerp & River Scheldt for Southend in ballast. Broke in two. One part of wreck lies in 51.22.42N, 3.14.18E. Second part in 51.23.45N. 3.16.48E.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  17. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    Extract from "The Sea is Their Grave" (unpublished)

    Cargo ship Samvern, 7,219grt, (MOWT, Ben Line) having discharged her cargo at Antwerp joined the 19 ship Convoy ATM-41, which departed Antwerp bound for Southend on the 18th January 1945. The same day near the River Scheldt Estuary the ship detonated a mine in position 51’ 22N 01’ 50E and broke in two with the loss of seven crewmembers, two DEMS gunners, two Dutch river pilots and five tank drivers. A number of these men were lost when one of the lifeboats capsized and drifted away with the men still clinging desperately to the keel and were never seen again. The two sections of the ship drifted apart and sank over a mile apart of each other. The forty-nine survivors were picked up a short time later and landed at Tilbury the following day.

    The-Sea-is-Their-Grave-Cove.jpg
     
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  18. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Thanks guy's Belgium coast. so not for my Missing site.
     

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