19th Jan 1943 - RA in Tunisia

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by WelshBlackie, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Hi all,

    I’m hoping that you can help me in pin pointing some more information on what happened operationally on the above date in Tunisia with the 17 Field Reg. It is the day my great grandfather died in Tunisia.

    Lance Bombardier BLACKBURN, THOMAS
    Service Number 819223

    Died 19/01/1943

    Aged 29

    17 Field Regt.
    Royal Artillery

    He’s buried at the Medjez el Bab war cemetery. Please let me know if any other information would help.

    Thanks in advance.

    Gareth.
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    His CWGC details - Casualty

    [​IMG]

    From this we can see he was previously buried at Souk el Arba - and early in 1943 [not sure of the month] the base there was attacked by German aircraft -

    OR

    He could have been involved in the prelude to the Battle of Kasserine Pass - "Bou Arada Valley" Operations in North Africa and the Middle East 1942-1944 where the Germans started an attack.


    Tunisian Campaign - Wikipedia
    During the first half of January, Anderson had with mixed results kept constant pressure through limited attacks and reconnaissance in strength.[39] Arnim did the same and on 18 January, launched Unternehmen Eilbote I (Operation Courier I).[40] Elements of the 10th Panzer and 334th Infantry divisions attacked from Pont du Fahs to create more space in front of the Superga Division and forestall an Allied thrust east to the coast at Enfidaville, to cut Rommel's line of communication.[41] The westward thrust against the right wing of the British V Corps at Bou Arada had little success but further south his attack against French positions around the "hinge" of the Western and Eastern Dorsals succeeded, advancing 56 km (35 mi) south to Ousseltia and 40 km (25 mi) south-west to Robaa. The poorly equipped defenders resisted well but were overwhelmed and the equivalent of seven infantry battalions cut off in the mountains

    All in all 17th Field Regt was a part of 78th Infantry Division - 78th Infantry Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    RA 1939-45 17 Fld Rgt


    TD
     
  3. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942:

    Blackburn_ra.jpg

    Blackburn_kia.jpg

    Blackburn_cas.jpg
     
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  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    The War Diary for the Regt
    17 Regt. | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 175/326
    Description:
    17 Regt.
    Date: 1942 Dec.- 1943 June
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew

    We have members on here who provide a copying service at exceptional rates compared to TNA, so if you need just ask

    TD
     
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  5. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Thank you so much guys. I will have a look at some of this and see what I can find.

    I take it that the war diaries will provide a bit more information on the specific date and that is what the members can copy? Would this allow me to track his service from conscription/enlistment?
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If you wish to go that route then you really need to obtain his service records, the link is - Request records of deceased service personnel this is because he may have been in different units from enlistment to leaving the Army, his records will show you that and then you can focus down into the war diaries

    The War diaries were written daily, if you search around the site then there are many examples or there are some that have been re written for ease of reading an example is - https://www.15thscottishdivisionwardiaries.co.uk/war-diaries.
    The 2 members I know who offer a copying service are , in no particular order
    http://ww2talk.com/index.php?members/psywar-org.2876/ - he also has a web site Archive Research - www.arcre.com
    http://ww2talk.com/index.php?members/drew5233.6786/

    So you should be able to find out what the unit was doing on the particular day you are interested in, possibly giving map references to where they were sited, but dont expect to see your relatives name unless he was an officer


    TD
     
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  7. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Thank you very much TD. Really appreciated.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If if check out the section 'Combat Support Arms' you will see this page https://www.15thscottishdivisionwardiaries.co.uk/combat-support-arms select one of the RA field regts for an example of a War Diary - remember though they vary greatly, and as the originals are normally hand written they can be difficult to decipher, sometimes though you may be lucky and someone took a typewriter with them :unsure::omg:

    TD
     
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  9. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

  10. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    [​IMG]


    Can you tell me what the date is in pencil and I think it says AR?
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    He signed on in 1932. He would have signed on for 5 and 7, 5 with the Colours and 7 in the Reserves. That is the date he transferred to the Army Reserve. (AR)

    Presume he initially signed on for 5 years - ie 1932 + 5 = 1937 then to Army Reserve

    TD

    I noted this thread - 78th British Infantry Division - "The Battleaxe Div" - its the sort you may want to keep an eye out for as it may have info as to what happened on 19th Jan 1943 ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Private Papers of Major P Pettit DSO TD
    PRIVATE PAPERS OF MAJOR P PETTIT DSO TD
    .................... relating to his service in the Royal Artillery with the 17th Field Regiment (1st Guards Brigade, 78th Division and 6th Armoured Division) in North Africa and Sicily (December 1942 - September 1943).


    Not 17th but provides some idea - BBC - WW2 People's War - The Day that War Broke Out - Facts t& Figures Pt 1
    The North African Campaign
    Such delectable anticipations rapidly became bitter delusions. The first night on ALGERIAN soil was spent on the beach in the open with the rain pouring down. If they were prepared to accept this as a freak, subsequent days spent under canvas at BONE waiting for guns and vehicles to arrive gave them ample proof that DARTMOOR was by no means the wettest place on earth. To add to the disillusionment, the long series of night marches, which took them across ALGERIA and TUNIS to the front, equally convinced them that it was not the coldest.
    On the night of 17th January 1943 the Regiment came into action near MEDJEZ-el-BAB for the first time in its second campaign of the war. The area was merely a gap between two infantry positions, and several times German patrols managed to infiltrate into the gun area and cause casualties.

    TD
     
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  13. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Thanks again TD. You wouldn't believe how much time it has taken me to find the information this thread has provided me in the last few days.
     
  14. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Based on this I have had a look through and found this with the 36th Irish Brigade

    There were further plans to capture Two Tree Hill and its two hilly neighbours on 18th January, this time led by 1 Royal Irish Fusiliers (1 RIrF). Due to a requirement for the enhancement of the artillery plan, the operation was postponed for 24 hours. On the morning of 18th January, the brigade’s positions on Grandstand Hill were attacked by a force, which was estimated to include five infantry battalions and over twenty tanks. A hard fought defensive action by both 6 Innisks and 1 RIrF, with the support of 2 LIR’s mortars and carriers and the brigade’s artillery 17th Field Regiment resulted in the attack being finally repulsed by the early evening.

    Based on the fact he was wounded on the 18th and died on the 19th, my amateur research skills are leading me to believe that this marries up and it when he was wounded. Do you think I am on the right track?
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Yes - I think you will find yourself being lucky to have got this close, the only thing closer would be to find a personal diary or memories of someone who was actually there - where you could find that is going to be a matter of luck if anything exists at all.
    I guess if you can pull together all the War Diaires who were there at the time then thats the most I think you can do. It may also be covered in some of the Regimental histories, but to do this you would need to know all the units, regiments, divisions, brigades etc - depends how deep you want to go and how deep your pockets are, some Regt'l Histories are expensive

    TD
     
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  16. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for quoting from my/my brother's website - always good to find that it's useful.... I can usually recognise my own handwriting - and I think it's usually better to attribute quotes properly and provide a link..so I'll do it for you...and at the risk of stating the obvious you should note that the brigade was actually 38th (Irish) Brigade.

    January 1943

    And here's a picture from the top of Grandstand Hill looking east towards Two Tree Hill - taken on Tuesday 13th March 2018 at 1518hrs

    IMG_7756a.jpg
     
  17. WelshBlackie

    WelshBlackie Member

    Apologies for not following the forum etiquette. I am new here and found it easier to copy the relevant part for TD to confirm if I was on the right track.

    Your website was very useful thank you and thank you for the picture. I’ve been to Medjez but that was 13 years ago before I knew the information I’ve found thanks to this forum this week.

    I have been weary of going back due to recent events but I would love to take my father there. Was this picture taken by you recently?

    Thanks, Gareth.
     
  18. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Thanks - the most important thing is that you seem to be progressing to finding more about the circumstances/location of your great grandfather's death.

    "forum etiquette" is not the issue - more like "research" etiquette and norms...and a link might more easily break down further details of, in this case, locations. Grandstand Hill is on the right hand side, to the east, of the the Goubellat to Bou Arada road and actually about 25 miles south of Medjez-el-Bab so a fair way away,

    The photo was taken in March as noted above.

    best wishes
     

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