Frank Shaw from Stockport. Based in Barton-upon-Humber. PE instructor joined 4th Airborne? Fought in Italy. Arm badges show RA & Para? Any help welcome. Jim
His grandson is looking for his service records but is unsure how to go about it. My area of research is family, not military, history but I'm attempting to assist anyway.
His grandson is looking for his service records but is unsure how to go about it. My area of research is family, not military, history but I'm attempting to assist anyway.
link here Get a copy of military service records date of birth and death certificate is all you need you will not get the records from anywhere else
Ah! Don't have either of those.... we know he was still alive in October 1942.... he sent letters from Italy but ceased to do so before the end of the war, so am assuming he died in action.
do you have details of any other family members names to narrow it down CWGC not showing him as a casualty
one of our genealogists will hopefully be able to help you further as much info as you can give will be helpful
I think you will therefore realise that we need some more to go on. Someone must have some rough dates, parents, wife, children, locations etc. If Family history is your area where have you already looked?
The original information: Frank Shaw was based here in Barton-upon-Humber, North Lincolnshire, during the War, in the Eagle House building on Fleetgate. He was a PT Instructor with the Army, we think a Sergeant. He would train soldiers, one of which was my Gran's brother, along Waterside Road. He joined the Airborne to fight in the War and saw my Mum only once, just after she was born. At the time Gran (Lucy Horsfall) was living with her sister, Mary, at 2 Redbourne Street in Scunthorpe, where Mum was born, and Frank went to see her on his way to War. This would be after October 1942. Frank wrote to Gran while he was away fighting, but unfortunately Gran didn't keep any of the letters. The only thing she has is this photo, with 'Frank Shaw, Stockport' written on the reverse. She keeps it in her purse all the time, along with a photo of my Mum as a baby. We don't know if Frank gave this photo to Gran before he went or while he was away (I'm not sure when the Pegasus badge was issued). Gran thinks Frank fought at the bridge with the other Paratroopers, which may have been Pegasus Bridge, but she does know for sure that he fought in Italy as that's where he sent letters from. For whatever reason the letters stopped and she didn't see Frank again. Personally, I would like to know what Frank did during the War and what happened to him. It may be that Frank made it back and had a family. It's quite possible that he didn't make it back, in which case I feel it would be right to find out as much as possible so that he's not forgotten. Unfortunately, I don't know what we can do about that. For whatever reason Gran didn't put a name down for the Father on Mum's birth certificate. Gran's 99 now and has told us all that she can remember. Any help and advice would be truly appreciated. Many thanks.
I've just started looking this PM... I've followed a trail of Military Badge forums and came across this site.
Jim lot of badges on the sleeve is it possible he just exited left? sorry to ask but really need date of birth plus anything else regards Clive
You said that you were into family history, what sites do you subscribe to? I am still a bit lost, I have found a Mary at Redbourne Street and also a Lucy Horsfall somewhere else. If the enquirer is looking for his grandfather, who is his gran Lucy, who is her brother, what relation is Frank, what is Mary's name, what is his mum's name?
The artillery patch over his Sgts stripes looks wrong to me He looks like he has seen some sun The letters stopped in 1942 - ? Pegasus Bridge was June 1944, and Arnhem later so how would he have contacted her so that she knew this?? if the last contact was 1942?? TD
Rootschat, Genes Reunited, Birmingham History Forum, Ancestry, Scotland's People & a couple of Irish ones... the only information I have been given is in the post above. Frank obviously had a brief encounter with Lucy before being posted to Italy. I was hoping to find out the significance of the badges... was he a Sergeant in the RA and then joined an airborne division? I haven't seen stripes with a badge across like that on any of the sites I have visited so far. He last saw Lucy & the baby in October 1942.... the letters continued from abroad....
Jim I think we are alluding to that All a bit Roy of the Rovers on the face of it Airborne Italy ,Pegasus Bridge France what proof is there that letters continued from abroad Sorry if I seem a bit on the third degree but we have a number of people who pass through here who try to help others and a couple of times the intended target was in the special forces or airborne of secret service etc when in fact they were not or decided just to leave the family behind. THE 4TH BATTALION THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT (4 PARA) The 4th Parachute Battalion was formed in January 1942 under Lt Col Hope-Thompson and was recruited from volunteers army-wide. Originally part of the 1st Parachute Brigade, it formed the nucleus for the 2nd Parachute Brigade, the last battalion to be recruited solely from volunteers. Insufficient volunteers were successfully qualifying for parachute training so it was decided future units would be formed by converting existing infantry battalions to the role. The Battalion was deployed to North Africa in 1943 in preparation for the invasion of Sicily, although in the event it was unused. The Battalion was eventually deployed for the invasion of Italy in September 1943. It then formed part of the 2nd Independent Parachute Brigade, which remained in Italy after the 1st Airborne Division returned to the UK in November 1943 to prepare for the invasion of Europe. The 4th Battalion parachuted into Southern France in August 1944 as part of Operation DRAGOON and again moved with the Brigade to Athens Greece for internal security duties following the German withdrawal in the winter of 1944-5. The 2nd Parachute Brigade, including the 4th Battalion, came under the command of 6th Airborne Division in Palestine from 3 September 1945 where it served until 24 January 1947. The Battalion sailed from Haifa, as part of the 2nd Parachute Brigade Group,for the United Kingdom where it amalgamated with the 6th Parachute Battalion in December 1947. The 4th Battalion The Parachute Regiment (4 PARA) | ParaData regards Clive
Jim. The reason I ask about what records you have access to is that, quite often, people post very scant information and we spend hours reseaching only to find they knew it all along. No more than that. As I understand it Frank Shaw is not related to Lucy or Mary and the only fact we know is that he fathered a girl around 1942 who was born in Redbourne Street. He is not named on the birth certificate. The objective as I understand it is to establish Frank's date of birth and death details in order that a death certificate, and hence his service records, can be obtained. Unfortunately if he is not related to anyone here then there is very little to work with, the name is not uncommon and it is difficult to know how or where to search. You say he was in Eagle House, Fleetgate, apparently: Soldiers were billeted at Eagle House during WW2. In 1940 it was a public ARP shelter. Also a Hostel for American airman (Goxhill airbase 5 miles away). June 1942 Goxhill was handed over to the USAF returning to the RAF in 1945. http://www.richardclarkelandscapehistorian.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Eagle-House-combined.pdf Is there any chance that Frank is American? I do not know anything about airborne troops/Royal Artillery but that badge on his stripes! Surely he would have been on a charge if he presented himself with it fixed at that angle. You mention Waterside Road, I presume you have found that there was a William Shaw living at No 1 in 1939. Children Tom, Stanley and Ivy but unable to find a son Frank but you may wish to search further. As I say, not sure where to look in view of the limited information.
Thanks for the very comprehensive reply Tony56, much appreciated. I'm aware the information provided is limited, but it's all I have to go on. I was hoping that information would surface regarding what regiments were stationed in Barton-upon-Humber in 1941. Had it been RA originally based in Stockport, then that could be a starting point. I'm accepting the details I have so far as correct until proved otherwise, so Stockport is my starting point. I have found details of a Frank Shaw of a similar age, who was in the RA and then a Commando who died in 1944.... but he was from Oldham... but that's only a few miles from Stockport.
