Sergeant Piedot and Pinkard (76 Squadron)

During the night of 21/22 January 1944 Halifax LK912 (76 Squadron) crashed near the German village of Hordorf while on ops to Magdeburg. The whole crew of seven was killed in the crash and is buried in the Berlin 1939-1945 War Cemetery. Two members of this crew were Sergeants Victor Wilfred Piedot and Donald Ernest Pinkard. Their CWGC details are at the bottom of this post.

A genealogy website suggests both men were born in Germany. I know there were more men from Germany who served with the Allied forces, but I don't know other examples of two Germans in the same bomber crew.

Who has got more information on these men or do know how to get more information on these two Sergeants from Halifax LK912?

PIEDOT, VICTOR WILFRED
Rank:Flight Sergeant
Trade:Nav.
Service No:1559966
Date of Death:21/01/1944
Age:30
Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 76 Sqdn.
Grave Reference9. A. 8.
Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Arthur Samuel and Rosa Piedot; husband of Yvonne Piedot, of Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire. A.C.I.S.

PINKARD, DONALD ERNEST
Rank:Sergeant
Trade:Air Gnr.
Service No:1307767
Date of Death:21/01/1944
Age:22
Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 76 Sqdn.
Grave ReferenceColl. grave 9. A. 11-14.
Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Ernest Albert Pinkard and Carrie Florence Pinkard.

 

Pieter,
Which geneology site suggests that they were born in Germany, as i have Piedot as born Edmonton, Middlesex 1913, and Pinkard born Salisbury Wiltshire, 1921.

 

On Forces War Records there are 2 ref's to a V W Piedot, date of death 21 1 1944


First Name:

V W

Surname:

Piedot

Nationality:

British

Fate:

Killed

Incident Details:

Crashed at Hordorf

Incident Date:

21-22/01/1944

Incident Time:

2008

Rank:

Sergeant

Duty Location:

Magdeburg
and also

First Name:

Victor Wilfred

Initials:

V W

Surname:

Piedot

DOB:

Circa 1914

Age:

30

Nationality:

British

Date of Death:

21/01/1944

Information:

SON OF ARTHUR SAMUEL AND ROSA PIEDOT; HUSBAND OF YVONNE PIEDOT, OF HEMEL HEMPSTEAD, HERTFORDSHIRE. A.C.I.S.

Rank:

Flight Sergeant

Service Number:

1559966
The info in the second ref ties in with the parental details on the CWGC site

 

Again for Donald Ernest Pinkard (76 Squadron) there are 2 ref's for him:


First Name:

D E

Surname:

Pinkard

Nationality:

British

Fate:

Killed

Incident Details:

Crashed at Hordorf

Incident Date:

21-22/01/1944

Incident Time:

2008

Rank:

Sergeant

Duty Location:

Magdeburg


and


First Name:

Donald Ernest

Initials:

D E

Surname:

Pinkard

DOB:

Circa 1922

Age:

22

Nationality:

British

Date of Death:

21/01/1944

Information:

SON OF ERNEST ALBERT PINKARD AND CARRIE FLORENCE PINKARD.

Rank:

Sergeant

Service Number:

1307767


Both the above 2 posts show their nationality as 'British'

 

I will have a look again. I found that website a few weeks ago and only wrote down that it suggested that they were German.

 

Yet another example of cobbled together rubbish from Forces War Records.

They state the incident was at 2008 which was the take off time at Spalding Moor not the time of crash.

No checking on their part of their cut and paste but happy to sell this "snake oil" for money.

Imperial registers give no time of death so it is not from that source.

Ross

 

Here it is:

http://www.ancientfaces.com/person/victor-wilfred-piedot/164709724

Birth ca. 1914 in Germany
Death Jan 21, 1944 (age 30)

http://www.ancientfaces.com/person/donald-ernest-pinkard/164712557

Birth ca. 1922 in Germany
Death Jan 21, 1944 (age 22)

 

Just wondering if the site should read "place of death" and not birth.

 

No idea, could be, but it also includes their year of birth, which would make it even more confusing then.

 

Sometimes the 'information' found on websites can be erroneous, especially if the primary source of that information is not quoted. As I remember, one of the websites being quoted as a source of information in this thread may not have had the best of relationships with WW2 Talk in the past.

In this instance, one can regard the images posted by AlanW (post #2) as a primary source of information. This indicates the two airmen concerned were born in the U.K. However, could it be that one or both the airmen had some German ancestry?

 

Pieter,

Something is odd here, I have been tracing the family via Ancestry, and the oddball bits here are:

1. Arthur Samuel Piedot and Rosa Amelia F Piedot (nee Edwards) were married in Steyning, Sussex 1902, and he died in Horsham Sussex in 1953, there is no mention in his history of Hemel Hempstead. They are in the electoral registers for Wood Green but I believe that to be south London.

2. The only reference to Victor Wilfred Piedot is his probate record showing he died 21 Jan 1944 on active service and that he lived in Edinburgh (54 Bruntsfield Gardens at the time of his death) with his wife Yvonne (she remarried in 1951 to a Mr Krolla)

I am not sure the details in the CWGC info are correct. Finding no birth or marriage to Yvonne in the Ancestry (UK) records for Victor is odd, so perhaps he was an immigrant into the UK at some point.

 

Pieter

For D E Pinkard, there are 5 family trees in existence for him, and they show:

Parents : Ernest Albert and Carrie Florence (nee Batchelor)
Date of birth : 21 May 1921 - Hampshire (UK)
Date of death: 21 Jan 1944

So he looks like he was UK born and the CWGC details for parents appear to match Ancestry

Hope this Ancestry link opens for you http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=donald&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=pinkard&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&uidh=5nr&cp=11&gl=42&so=2

Note the birth cert is for Ernest D Pinkard, I can only assume he became known as Donald Ernest to differentiate between himself and his father.


England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005 about Ernest D Pinkard




Name:

Ernest D Pinkard

Mother's Maiden Surname:

Batchelor

Date of Registration:

Apr-May-Jun 1921

Registration District:

Salisbury

Inferred County:

Wiltshire

Volume Number:

5a

Page Number:

286

 

Thanks AlanW, your info eventually led me to :
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=piedot&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&uidh=5nr&cp=11&pcat=BMD_BIRTH&h=28028994&recoff=9&db=FreeBMDBirth&indiv=1&ml_rpos=122

confirming your answer and image - do not know why it took so long to find

In 1939 he married Yvonne Newman in Wandsworth http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ONSmarriage1984&h=46063057&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8912


Edited to add: looking through other family trees as afar back as 1840, the Piedots lived in London and SE England

 

I checked Hemel Hempstead memorial and he is not on there
PIEDOT, VICTOR WILFRED
Rank:Flight Sergeant
Trade:Nav.
Service No:1559966
Date of Death:21/01/1944
Age:30
Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 76 Sqdn.
Grave Reference9. A. 8.
Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Arthur Samuel and Rosa Piedot; husband of Yvonne Piedot, of Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire. A.C.I.S.







Piedot, Victor Wilfred


Flight Sergeant

21-Jan-44​

Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve


76 Sqd


http://www.hemelatwar.org/those%20who%20died-2.html

 

Could I throw something in here that may explain "The German"!

Could these two airmen be German speakers, which were used on allied aircraft to countermand German orders to night fighters etc?

According to Chorley BCL's, Sgt Piedot was an Associate of the Chartered Institute of Secretaries.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Thank you Tricky Dicky, for providing these genealogical details.

CL1, but he is mentioned on that Hemel at War website you found as well. So he might have lived there sometime.

Geoff, that could be a explanation. But why would they have two people who speak German aboard? Besides that, this wasn't a experienced crew, 21 January was their first and only mission. Would they have tasked such an inexperienced crew with an extra task?

 

Hi Peter,

Just putting up something for discussion. The German speaker was usually an extra to the crew so may not be correct however with a German speaker among the crew they may not have needed that extra person.

If so, there must be something in the files somewhere.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Hello Pieter
Yes he would possibly be associated to Hemel via his wifes connection


regards
Clive

 

But unfortunatelly that website contains no more information besides the basic information from the CWGC.

 

Further information about Victor Piedot has recently been added to Hemel at War
PiedotVW