1/RTR casualty Le Quesnay 14/6/1944?

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Simon_Fielding, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Simon_Fielding

    Simon_Fielding Withnail67

    Hi there

    I'm looking to help a friend with information on a relative - after working past the wrong name and the wrong unit, I've established he was

    Service Number 7884989
    Died 14/06/1944
    Aged 29 1st Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.

    At this time I understand the 1/RTR were fighting in the 'Brigade Box'

    Looking at WCT's CWGC records I notice that the reburial document gives a map reference, and also seems to give a changed date of death to what looks like the 18th of July 44 - which would be the opening of Goodwood.

    I've got a lot from this excellent thread 7th Armoured Brigade Box 13 June 1944. not least of which are the outstanding map reproductions - is the map that covers Le Quesnay available online? Tibbles cwgc.jpeg

    The original burial map ref is 748.586 - the other two burials of the RTR look like Tibbles' crew don't they? Should I pay any attention to the changed date? All other sources give the 14th June....

    Thanks very much for any help you can give...

  2. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    Hello Simon,

    Yes, it is mentioned and shown on the thread you have seen,
    France 1:50,000, GSGS 4250, Sheet 7F/3, Aunay-sur-Odon

    The map you need for the burial is
    France 1:50,000, GSGS 4250, Sheet 6F/4, Torigni-sur-Vire

  3. idler

    idler GeneralList

    1 R Tks were operating out of Bricquessard on the 14th - they had their own brigade box (131 Bde) with one of the Queens battalions (1/6?) and other odds and sods. I believe they sallied out southwards at times to keep the road open to Amaye as the Panzer Grenadiers from 2 Pz Div were putting pressure on it. I feel I should have something on him/them but will need to poke around the hard drive. From memory, Carver's reporting style tended towards the positive with little mention of casualties.
  4. Simon_Fielding

    Simon_Fielding Withnail67

    I'm doing well here. Thank you for the map! I've also found a Patrick Delaforce book that covers 1&2 RTR in Normandy, and it mentions Tibbles by name. 18 7 44 must be a mistake or when the body was found... Kindle Cloud Reader.clipular.png Kindle Cloud Reader.clipular (1).png Kindle Cloud Reader.clipular (2).png 6360523365679104 (1).jpeg
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    A vehicle roll before D-Day has him in 1 Troop, A Squadron, his tank .being called Achilles.

    On 14 June, most of 1 R Tks moved out to protect the road to Amaye, to the point where one of the squadrons worked their way south of Amaye. However, A Sqn was placed under command of 1/6 Queens to protect Bricquessard. Le Quesnay is significant because at least one Tiger and a Pz IV came up that road until they bumped into a 17pr anti tank gun; Sjt Tibbles may have been caught up in that unpleasantness.
  6. Simon_Fielding

    Simon_Fielding Withnail67

    And these were Cromwells, yes?
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList

    In theory, one tank in each troop was a Firefly. Just off out so will check the roll later to see who had that
  8. Simon_Fielding

    Simon_Fielding Withnail67

    Does this look rightish?
    C Le Ques 44.jpg Amayé-sur-Seulles - Google Maps.clipular.jpg
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Mapwise, yes, but the Google shot could do woth being centred on the bend at the bottom as it's this area you're interested in.
  10. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    I got this from Tom a few years back.

    "WO171/439 – 7 Armoured Division G Branch – Jun – Jul 44

    Appx F.11 Issued 20 June 1944

    Appendix “A” to 7 Armd Div
    Intelligence Summary No.10
    Report on destruction of Mk VI enemy tank.
    By OC A/Tk Regt of this Division

    At about 1000 hrs on 16th June the enemy launched an attack of approximately one company strength supported by one Mk VI and one Mk IV tank due NORTH down the road CAHAGNES – LE QUESNAY – BRIQUESSARD. The infantry were engaged by small arms. The infantry were fanned out on either side of a Tiger Tank (Mk VI) which was advancing very slowly down the road in the area 741587, the turret traversing from side to side. One 17 pr gun was dug in and sited to command this stretch of road. The No.1 saw the tank appear at about 300 yds range and allowed it to come slowly on intending to engage it at about 150 yds. At about 200 yds range, however, a tank, which was giving flank protection, opened fire. The No.1 fearing his prize would veer off fired. He shot two rounds and the tank started to smoke. The lap gunner being wounded, baled out and was killed by Bren gun fire. The driver attempted to get out and was killed half way through the hatch. Our tanks then opened fire from both flanks and the tank began to “brew up” rapidly. The second tank sheered off and was immediately engaged and was reported put out of action. (This was a Mk IV).

    The enemy infantry by this time were overrunning our infantry who withdrew taking our gun crew with them. The latter then reformed at Coy HQ about 70 yds in rear and with their Bren gun took part in the counter attack. They sprayed a hedge and a groan was heard and the position was retaken and the gun crew reoccupied their gun pit. Six bodies were found dead on the enemy side of the hedge.

    I went and examined the tank in the afternoon and found the following results:-

    The lower vertical plate (i.e.:- the plate below that in which the driver’s visor is situated had been completely penetrated by two 17 pr shells, the two holes actually cut each other. These shells struck at an angle of approximately 90°. Thickness of armour about 3”. In each case the shots had to cut through the spare track which was fixed to the lower sloping plate before the vertical plate could be holed.

    On the upper horizontal plate joining the lower to upper vertical there was a furrow about 4” long and a spatter on the upper vertical plate. This might have been caused by the first tank shell. On the nearside front sprocket six teeth had been knocked off. The fourth nearside bogey had been pierced and the shot had penetrated the side armour into the tank. Angle about 70°.

    On the offside there was complete penetration of the centre of the lower vertical plate at an angle of 80°. There was partial penetration of the side just above the track and below the lower vertical plate again in the centre. I was unfortunately not able to measure the thickness of the armour at either of the penetrations on each side above the track but that on the near side went straight into the engine. All these side shots were fired by Cromwells at ranges of about 200 – 300 yds. These tanks had moved forward on each flank to make certain that the tank was really finished.

    The tank number was 104. The tank had a white S on a green square on the offside of the upper vertical plate and a Crossed Keys in a Shield with two oak leaves underneath on the near side of the same plate."

    SS 101 Tiger 104 Quesnay (4g).jpg
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  11. Simon_Fielding

    Simon_Fielding Withnail67


    Fantastic document MK - I'm warming to the Cromwell...
  12. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  13. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The Tiger some time later, The turret has now gone missing.

    SS101 1.Kp. Tiger deturreted - 104.jpg
  14. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It's actually too leftish - you're 1km too far west as the Easting you've labelled 74 is actually 73!

    Also, ACHILLES looks to have been a Cromwell, not a Firefly.
    Tony56 likes this.

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