111 Field Battery, RA - Special Force role?

Just come across a unit I've not heard of previously, and wondered if anyone knew anything about them.

I recently picked up the War Establishment for a "Special Field Battery, RA, Middle East" effective 25th Oct 1943. I thought it might have referred to the SP 25-prs left over from the desert campaign, but it doesn't.

It shows the standard org for an RA Bty, two Troops, each of four guns, in this case 25-prs. The odd thing is the transport; there practically isn't any! Bty HQ and each Tp HQ just shows one motorcycle and three Jeeps, each with a trailer. There's no allotment of transport for the firing Secs, which just comprise a Sjt and five gun numbers per gun.

I was going to write it off as an oddity used for garrison duty somewhere out in the wilds, but then found reference to 111 Field Battery. This unit appears to have been linked to the Raiding Support Regiment, and possibly, operations out of Vis.

Anyone more familiar with the history of the Vis/Adriatic Bde come across a bit more detail on the role of 111 Fd Bty, and perhaps have an idea if they link with the curious WE I've got?

Thanks,

Gary

 

Hi Gary,

I can't find any war diaries that may help-Could they have been under the Raiding Support Regiment (part or their Orbat). I think I have all of their diaries, what date(s) are we looking at?

A

 

Difficult to say dates wise, only just found out about the Bty! At a guess no earlier than Nov-Dec 1943, based on the WE issue date.

This is the only mention I could find of 111 Fd Bty re the RSR -

World War II, RAIDING SUPPORT REGIMENT, Captain Harry Boddington, CD, tells of his days with one of Britain's World War II special service groups.

A few variations on a web search just brought up refs to RAA and RCA 111 Btys, or 111 US FA Bns.

Gary

 

Just had a quick glimpse at one diary (bit too busy at mo) and from some pages headed Operation Decomposed II it lists a 211 Bty of 111 Field Regiment. The CO is Lt Col Elliott.

Could the paperwork you have be a typo?

I'll try and find some more time tomorrow to do some more digging-Remind me if I don't.

The diaries I have cover Aug 44 to Jul 45

 

Cheers Drew. My WE doesn't identify the unit using the org, that's what I'm hoping to do. I'm just curious what their role was in the absence of the usual transport. The only other WE I've seen for an RA Bty wholly without transport for the guns was the Special Force Bty used by the Chindits, because they were airlifted. I'm not aware of any similar unit being provided for the ME/Med theatre, and wondered if the Bty was stationed permanently somewhere.

111 Field Regiment is listed as an 8th Army unit in Italy from 1943-45 in Joslen, so possibly a temporary attachment to RSR. No mention in Joslen of a 111 Fd Bty sadly.

Thanks,

Gary

 

Out of scope for Joslen

WO 212/494

111 Fd Regt
8 Aug 44 2 SS Bde 2 Mil District (Italy)
26 Sep 44 Land Forces Adriatic
15 May 45 5 Army

Raid Spt Regt was a very different establishment, being 4 btys each differnt.

 

WO 169/9512 111 Field Regiment 1943 Jan.- Dec.

WO 170/967 Field Regiments: 111 Field Regt 1944 Jan.- Dec.

WO 170/4752 Field Regiments: 111 Regiment 1945 Jan.- Nov.

 

No mention of them in the HLI history (their involvement is mentioned in the link above). If it helps to pin down dates, 2 HLI embarked for Vis in the middle of May 1944.

I wonder if the answer is amongst these Land Forces Adriatic files? It includes a report from 111 Fd Regt and a 'plan to cause damage and casualties ... by artillery fire'.

I suspect that Thompson's RM history may hold some clues, but can't find it at the moment.

 

43 RM Cdo (from RM Unit History Summaries):

After training in Scotland, the Commando joined 2 SS Bde, arriving in North Africa late in 1943; 23–4 January 1944 landed as flank force at Anzio against little opposition; 2 February with 9 (Army) Cdo attacked hill features after night infiltration north of Allied position on Garigliano River; 28 February landed on Vis, joining 2 SS Brigade’s force on this island; 22–3 March raided Hvar with partisans; in May carried out unit recces on Uljan and Pasman islands with 9 (Army) Cdo and 43 RM Cdo; 22 May raid on Mljet with other units proved unsuccessful in steep hills; 2–4 June on Brac (see chapter 7); small recce patrol returned to Brac (20 June) but found no suitable positions for artillery to shell garrison; July, recce patrol on Hvar, ambushed Germans (12 July) and visited Korcula; artillery landed after patrols on Korcula and Peljesak Peninsula; 11 September returned to Brac to block possible German threats from the mainland when partisans took control of this island; 16–18 September landed on Solta and drove garrison into heavily a defended enclave; 27 September sailed from Vis for Italy. From 28 October to 22 December 1944 part of ‘Floyd Force’ landed at Dubrovnik (at that time in Yugoslavia) as nucleus of force engaged in mountain warfare.

Idle thought - have seen pictures of 25prs deployed on landing craft in the Far East - might that technique be behind the lack of transport? Don't think it would hold for 3.7" AA guns, though. Or has someone got confused with 3.7" mountain guns which would make more sense?

 

Here is one of many reports from WO 170/1364 RSR's 1944 war diary:

 

And another

 

Can any of you RA chaps ID what regiment 111 Field Battery was with? This could prove the ref to a Bty is a typo.

 

Can't argue with that!

Is there any mention of what the AA guns were, as I can't see anyone carrying a 3.7", or mounting one in a LCA? Could they be 20mm Polstens? Now to find out what an RCL is...

Edit: 0.5" Brownings.

 

111 Fd Bty were part of 30 Fd Regt in Italy.

The entry for 111 Fd Regt looks a bit incomplete, though.

 

Thanks for the scans Drew. They've left me wondering whether the 25-prs could have possibly been manhandled ashore and into firing positions, then back again. Probaby the WE I've got is for a static unit, and I'm making a false connection with the Vis/Adriatic Bde.

Cheers,

Gary

 

Hi,
RCL stands for Ramped Cargo Lighter.

Their size was 52ft by 18ft.

Although it was probably based on an LCM 1 it was designed and built in Canada around 1941/42. An all wooden craft.

I have seen them called “Power Scow” and “Canadian built Landing Craft Power Lighter” in some paperwork.

Regards

Danny

 

Gary, I believe that you could well be talking about a battery of the 111th Field Regiment RA [the 111th]. The 111th originally comprised 2 x 12- 25pdrs (210 & 211 Batterys) & was formed as a regular TA artillery, & sibling Rgt to the 53rd Field Rgt, (Wanderers of the Bolton Artillery).

They were later reconfigured to 3 x 8 (3rd Btry 46something, 463/465?)*
Initially some 144 Gunners in First 25 pdr Teams; not sure of total personnel, & equipment in Rgt then, but in March ’43 they did loose 15 men (+ casualties?) over 3 days, during one action.

I don’t recall seeing reference to the 3rd battery after this, only 210 & 211, but often in other unit’s accounts they are referred to only as ‘the 111th’.
I understand that some from the 111th could have been used for some form of official/unofficial?* raiding/backup support role; fuel, maintenance, logistics patrols etc to the LRDG & SAS as then remaining in N Africa. They were at one time all out of the camp at Kabrit, & on occasion did travel alongside, & appeared at some of the same events.

210/211 Btrys later moved to the Adriatic side of Italy & then in March/April 44* went over to Vis; then under the orbat of Land Forces Adriatic.

Yes Gary you are right the 111th were involved in irregular warfare in joint ops as Special Forces, with Navy & others in ‘small island’ raiding parties ‘assisting’ Tito’s Partisans. I had at one time thought they may have been part of RSR, but I think they could have achieved Special Force status in their own right. I do know that some if not all in 111th had SF badges, but not sure which badge(s).*


I believe that it was Lt Col Elliot (a bit of a character from accounts) who came up with a variation on the ‘Relief of Ladysmith’; this time using the Navy to carry Army guns over water*, & where the 111th 'distinguished themselves, for their ability to mount & dismount a 25 pd gun, & carry it to target, (& back) via a small LC’ They once did a 'mock gun carriage race' display to persuade Maclean/Tito* of the practicality, & there were quite a few more innovative ops than those described in Decomposed II, & Grandfather I; including successful use of ‘experimental’ charges.


If I have this right the max range of a 25pdr is stated as some 12.2 miles, yet there is one account, & if 111 was positioned as reported, when they hit targets some 15-18 miles away (maybe farther). Can anyone confirm if that was ever feasible then?*

The WE you refer to dates around the time LFA itself came into being; under the orbat of SOE’s Force 133; & at one time comprising 40 & 43 Commandos*, LRDG, SAS, SBS, RSR, some HLI, & the 111th ; does that perhaps make the LFA itself, a Combined Special Forces, with the ‘swimming Pegasus’ as it’s SF emblem*?

With particular regard to your WE; I have also seen reference to a 3rd (or 4th) Btry being referred to as the 111th‘s “Regimental Battery”*, & being based out of Bari, I had assumed that this was the 463/5/?, but this could be consistent to a typo in your WE; could re-forming, or re-naming a pre-existing Btry be entered as a ‘new’ WE?* more so if it became a ‘Special Btry’.

This still leaves the question of transport; & does your WE specify all equipment & personnel for this Btry? (is it possible to PM a copy?)


Does it show no Quads at all for the 8 guns? Even when carried by sea/air some form of land vehicle would be required for moving round camp, loading etc; more so if the Btry had autonomy.



I don’t think any 111th were ever airborne, but they did acquire & use other ‘non-issue’ land transport, but Quads appear to be the norm in all ‘official’ references I’ve seen so far; even for the transporting of guns to LC’s when on Vis.


This begs other questions about any other equipment for a “Special Btry”; were Quads normally equipped with Brens? & run without limber? & was it the norm for all Other Ranks in artillery to be equipped with pistols? & was the Fairburn method of self-defence taught to the normal army rank & file at that time?

I believe that 111th/LFA had use of David Stirling's original Blitz Buggy in Italy; at least as a ‘staff car/runabout’ (i.e. that modified ‘non- Army issue’ civvie Ford Pilot V8 Woody Wagon that Stirling 'borrowed' from the docks in Cairo, in ’41*), but I’ve not found any official, or other reference to it reaching Italy in ‘43. Indeed there appear to be very few photos of the original Buggy, which in itself is surprising because I believe that it was somewhat unique & well known in the day.



Some say the Buggy was ‘totalled’ by the Italians, when Stirling was captured in Jan ’43, & I’m interested in anything that could corroborate, or refute, that it was actually recovered, repaired (yet again) & last known & seen (unless someone knows better) on the roads around Bari, & the Adriatic in ‘43/’44.*


* A lot of the above is from memory, assumptions & conclusions reached from previous/ongoing research & I would welcome any confirmation, or correction to any of the above.

 

I'm having a crack at uploading the scanned WE; just to reiterate there is no indication on the document of the using unit, if there was it would be mighty helpful!

 

32 LMGs seems rather a lot. Weren't LMGs issued to A/Tk Btys at the scale of only 1 per gun, and they had the definite purpose of dealing with the tank crews?