11th Battalion Parachute regiment

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by wtid45, May 25, 2010.

  1. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    I have finally scanned the records and put them in an album on my profile - feel free to browse and make suggestions, advise on abbreviations etc. It seems old Pops might have been quite a naughty boy in Aug 44 not returning to his unit on discharge from hospital - there is mention of Open arrest and 105 MCD (don't know what this is). I know his mother died at some point during his service and he wasn't granted leave, I am researching records to see if this coincides with her death. He continues to remain an enigma!
     
  2. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    Chuck, thanks for the advice - I hope to visit Duxford in May. I am excited about it, I guess the reason I work in museums is I love that 'time machine' feeling when handling objects from the past, it makes the past tangible and real. It will mean even more to me at Duxford that it will be the past of my dad and his fellow men at arms - gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.
     
  3. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Shell,

    Hopefully someone will come along to help with abbreviation interpretation. Not to be discouraging but I find your images a bit small. I'll PM you with some information that might be helpful.
     
  4. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    I have finally scanned the records and put them in an album on my profile - feel free to browse and make suggestions, advise on abbreviations etc. It seems old Pops might have been quite a naughty boy in Aug 44 not returning to his unit on discharge from hospital - there is mention of Open arrest and 105 MCD (don't know what this is). I know his mother died at some point during his service and he wasn't granted leave, I am researching records to see if this coincides with her death. He continues to remain an enigma!

    In the 70's and 80's the glasshouse at Colchester was known as the MCTC...Military Corrective Training Centre...so the M and C could be the same and D for depot.......he had obviously been AWOL and got some time in a glasshouse....is there a war diary for this unit????
     
  5. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    I think that it's more likely to be 105 Military Convalescent Depot as I don't think you'd be classified as under "open arrest" if you were in the glasshouse.
    There's a file on that Depot at the Archives under WO 222/1075.

    John
     
  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    There's a 11 Para WD for September 44, but it's pretty sparse leading up to Arnhem.

    Some others from pic 5043 following his August 44 AWOL:

    RHU - Reinforcements Holding Unit
    DSAF - Depot and School Airborne Forces
    ITC - Infantry Training Centre
    KRR - ?

    On pic 5037 under Countries I can only make out Overseas, Home, Malta, M.E.... The detail is just not there.

    From pic 5038 it looks like he went AWOL in May of 44 as well.
     
  7. arnhem2280

    arnhem2280 Member

    Just looking through Pte Davenports service record from a medal enthusiasts point of view it seems he was awarded the 39/45 and Africa Stars, Defence and War Medals.

    I'm not 100% sure but as Cos is in the Dodecanese Islands and the 11th Battalion landed there in September of 1943 which was after the start of the award period for the Italy Star ( which I think was June 1943 ) if he had been involved in the drop on Cos he would have been entitled to the award of the Italy star as the Dodecanese Islands are included in the geographic area for the Italy Star award.

    Also not shown is the F/Germany Star which covers the period in NW Europe from 6th June 1944 to VE day including all the 1st and 6th A/B Divisions operations.

    Of course, as with all documentation, it is only as accurate as the information the person is entering it on the form is given by others.

    Hope this all makes sense.

    Arnhem
     
  8. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    arnhem2280,

    A possible connection to Cos is a line on pic 5042 that begins with 'Granted leave' and ends with '7 days', dated September 24, 43. The only date I've found of 11 Para coming off of Cos is September 25, 43.

    Like you say it's curious there is no mention of a France/Germany Star. It's a matter, I suppose, of unraveling what actually occurred from his hospitalization in August 44 onward with various postings when he was shifted from 11 Para to DSAF and then 18 ITC.
     
  9. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Cee

    On 24/25th September 1943 Major Gilchrist and his A Coy party that had been on Kos were still on Cyprus waiting to fly back to rejoin their unit. They arrived back at Ramat David on the 28th September. It's therefore unlikely that, had he been with that detachment, he would have been granted leave.
    From the attached it would appear more likely that Pte Davenport was one of the party that travelled to Cyprus on the 13th but did not go onward to Kos and returned with Major Barnes, arriving back at Ramat David on the 23rd. (see his name at ZB Levies on Loading Table attached)

    John
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    horsapassenger,

    Wow, that is interesting John - you just may have placed him. I'm sure Shell will be delighted to see her Father's name there even though in this scenario it may exclude him from involvement at Kos. Cyprus would, I assume, be outside the operational area for the Italian Star?
     
  11. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Cee

    Agreed - a slight correction his party didn't go to Cyprus until the 14th. Attached is the WD entry showing the return of Major Barnes and his party on the 23rd September.
    I'm no expert but I don't think that Cyprus would have entitled him to the Italy Star.

    John
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    He did get the F/G star, looking at these records I think they seem rather sparce. For example the box for listing campaigns etc is empty. I find it all rather frustrating. This is just another example, he got the medal but it isn't record. I don't think he had the Italy star.
     
  13. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    Cee

    On 24/25th September 1943 Major Gilchrist and his A Coy party that had been on Kos were still on Cyprus waiting to fly back to rejoin their unit. They arrived back at Ramat David on the 28th September. It's therefore unlikely that, had he been with that detachment, he would have been granted leave.
    From the attached it would appear more likely that Pte Davenport was one of the party that travelled to Cyprus on the 13th but did not go onward to Kos and returned with Major Barnes, arriving back at Ramat David on the 23rd. (see his name at ZB Levies on Loading Table attached)

    John
    horsapassenger,

    Thank you so much. Firstly for translating the MCD for me and I will certainly look at the documents you referenced. I know that dad was injured at Normandy and was exempted from lifts after that. However he told me that while in hospital, he heard that 'something big' was going down and so 'accidently lost' his exemption papers! The something big turned out to be Market Garden.

    Secondly - wow, it's so amazing to see his name on a contemporary document along with that of his commanding officer and fellow soldiers. It is really starting toanswer question and to bring that part of his life into reality. I am hoping to pass my final research on to his Grandchildren, Great Grandchildren and now his Great Grandchildren. It is so important that they know what he did. I can't thank you and eveyone here enough.
     
  14. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    horsapassenger,

    Wow, that is interesting John - you just may have placed him. I'm sure Shell will be delighted to see her Father's name there even though in this scenario it may exclude him from involvement at Kos. Cyprus would, I assume, be outside the operational area for the Italian Star?
    I was indeed delighted to see the document - fantastic!

    I have a feeling that he was on Kos with the SBS, he also did an operation on Crete from where he was evacuated by submarine. I found some notes that my husband took after a chat with him, they are quite sparce but have a couple of little gems and a couple of quirky annecdotes. Like many old soldiers he didn't talk about it much.
     
  15. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Shell,

    On pic 5036 it says he was transferred to the KORR in June 41, followed by a posting in early July with the 8th listed as the unit. This could be the 8th Battalion KORR. On July 11, 41 he embarked overseas to Malta.

    See here pictures of the 8th Battalion on Malta. If you go to the bottom you can proceed to the next page of photos.

    8th Battalion, King's Own in Malta 1941-43 - Page One

    On the surface that make's sense to me, but I'm not entirely sure I have it right?

    ... Regards
     
  16. Shell Scott

    Shell Scott Daughter of 11PARA vet.

    Shell,

    On pic 5036 it says he was transferred to the KORR in June 41, followed by a posting in early July with the 8th listed as the unit. This could be the 8th Battalion KORR. On July 11, 41 he embarked overseas to Malta.

    See here pictures of the 8th Battalion on Malta. If you go to the bottom you can proceed to the next page of photos.

    8th Battalion, King's Own in Malta 1941-43 - Page One

    On the surface that make's sense to me, but I'm not entirely sure I have it right?

    ... Regards
    Hi - I think it is right. We have looked at the KORR website and it makes sense. In a few of the pictures there is a guy with a clarinet. Long before I saw these pictures Dad used to talk about a guy with a clarinet that in his words "could make it talk". He talked about hearing him play 'When the Deep Purple Falls" and how the music travelled in the still night air. Sadly the chap was killed in a bombing raid. Finding these pictures after hearing that story a few times as a young girl, was quite moving.

    Cheers
     
  17. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Shell,

    Well it looks like I'm well behind you as far as the Malta period goes as I just realized there's another set of photos on there by Private Edward Rathbone who was with the Carrier Platoon. Sergeant H. Shaw appears to have been with HQ which was stationed at Ta Salvatur. It makes you wonder if that is the complete collection of photos by those men or if there are more at the museum. I find them a bit small for adequate viewing.

    The KORR Museum in Lancaster could yield further information on your Father with regard his company or platoon. From there you might get a general idea of his movements on the island from a WD if available and you want to dig deeper.

    The 8th Battalion traveled to Malta in convoy WS 9C (part of Operation Substance) leaving from the Clyde on July 11, 41. Do you know if he was on the Manchester when it was torpedoed in the Mediterranean and had to limp back to Gibraltar? Later the troops were taken to Malta by several ships of which the HMS Manxman and HMS Arethusa are known to have carried 8th Battalion members.

    Sorry, not much new there Shell, but here's another KORR thread on WW2Talk:

    My father's records...........at last - WW2Talk
     
  18. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    Hi,

    Does anyone know if the book below has been released yet and if so where to get hold of a copy?

    ARNHEM, THEIR FINAL BATTLE. THE 11TH PARACHUTE BATTALION, 1943-1944
    Author: Pipjper, G. & D Truesdale

    Cheers,

    Skip
     
  19. Ramon

    Ramon Senior Member

    Hi,

    Does anyone know if the book below has been released yet and if so where to get hold of a copy?

    ARNHEM, THEIR FINAL BATTLE. THE 11TH PARACHUTE BATTALION, 1943-1944
    Author: Pipjper, G. & D Truesdale

    Cheers,

    Skip

    The 28th of april.
     
  20. Ramon

    Ramon Senior Member

    Hi,

    Does anyone know if the book below has been released yet and if so where to get hold of a copy?

    ARNHEM, THEIR FINAL BATTLE. THE 11TH PARACHUTE BATTALION, 1943-1944
    Author: Pipjper, G. & D Truesdale

    Cheers,

    Skip

    The 28th of april.
    You can order it by Niall cherry, in the uk.
    Or buy it in the airborne museum, Meyer en siegers in oosterbeek, the netherlands. Also possible to order it by Sigmund publishing.
    Somewhere on the forum is more information but I don't have the time for searching.

    Probably someone else knows it.
     

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