12th/ 27th Lancers -Help need with reading service records

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by mew123, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    Hi my name is Michael Wilson I'm trying to find out more information on my grandads service record.
    I have had his service papers released but I can only understand so much of the paper work. I can see he was part of the 12th and 27th Lancers.
    He always talked a little about the long range deset group but I'm un able to see anything to connect this.
    His name is Alfred Dennis Nield and his service number is 7946495.

    Kind regards Michael Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Quick look through the papers confirm he only went overseas to Middle East in Jan 1944 by which time hostilities had ceased so he couldn't have served with LRDG.

    Steve Y
     
  3. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    Hi thank you for taking the time to look it's appreciated would there have been any other possible unit he used to talk about not having a proper uniform and having bits of all sorts of uniform put together also being behind enemy lines ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    The most helpful form from which to track a soldiers movements is the AF B103 - the first document you've unloaded.

    There are often several of this forms used during a soldiers service. Have you got any more? The one you've uploaded only covers his service until he was hospitalised in North Africa in June 1944. It does not cover his later active service in the Italian Campaign. If you haven't got any more B103's it might be an idea to get back on to Glasgow in case there has been a clerical error.

    Just to clarify my LRDG comments. They were active in the Italian Campaign until 1945 in small operations on various Mediterranean islands - usually inserted by Parachute but I can't see any reference to Parachute training for your relative.

    Are you in possession of his WW2 Medals? I can see his eligibility has been endorsed on the file but can't see the usual Army Medal Office stamp certifying the date of issue. If you haven't got them nearest NOK can still apply.

    Steve Y
     
  5. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    Hi thank you for your help If its ok with you I will take a photo of all the documents u received from Glasgow when I get back tonight.
    I have to be honest I'm a complete novice with this paprework so any help to read it would be really appreciated.
    He never collected his medals he desided when he returned home that was the end of the military so desided against getting them.
    I'll send some more pictures and if you can help make sense of it all it would be very appreciated
    Thanks again Michael
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Michael

    Could you clarify what is written to the left of the term B N A F _ I think its in pencil but cannot make out the words

    Thanks
    TD
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    TD,

    From one of the blurred bigger images I can make it out as the full version of the BNAF acronym.

    Same for MEF - although that's mistakenly noted as Mediterranean Expeditionary Force ( WW1 term) rather than Middle East Force.

    Steve Y
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Thanks Steve - I was hoping it might be a small clue to something else - ah well

    TD
     
  9. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    I've managed to get the rest of the paperwork If any of you can help me make sence of it all.
    Your help is really appreciated
    Thanks Michael
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Michael,​

    Thanks for posting the additional material. I see you have the AF B103 covering the whole of his service.

    I can't see any mention of service with LRDG or any other special forces/commando type formation whilst he served in Italy or elsewhere.

    He joined up in 1942 and after initial training he had various lengthy technical training courses - he had previous relevant experience as a Transport Drivers Mate - throughout 1942 into late 1943 when he was posted to 27th Lancers as an Electrician - presumably responsible for the maintaining the electrical components in his unit's Armoured Vehicles . I understand the unit had been in the Middle East (can't be specific in which country) since earlier that year so I assume he went out in January 1944 as a reinforcement.

    He went to Italy with 27th Lancers later in 1944 and remained with that unit until it was disbanded in August 1945. He was then posted to 12th Lancers. After leave in the UK he served with 12th Lancers in the Middle East (again non specific re country) until his return to UK in late 1946 for demobilisation in early 1947.

    You could look to obtain the 27th Lancers War Diaries for 1944 &1945 to get a fuller picture of the unit's activities. There is some information on Wikipedia and if you use google you may turn up additional information.

    Regards

    Steve Y
     
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  11. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    That's great information thank you very much for taking the time to look at it for me it's nice to have a better understanding of it all. I will deffinatly see if I can find the war dairies.

    Again thank you very much for your help
    Cheers Michael
     
  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    You're Welcome Michael.

    Don't think the War Diaries are available online. They are at UK National Archives at Kew, London.

    If you can't manage a personal visit some forum members offer a copying service. Drop Forum member Drew5233 a PM.

    Good Luck

    Steve Y
     
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  13. mew123

    mew123 Junior Member

    Hi Steve that's amazing thank you I will deffinatly get in touch about getting a copy.
    I know I've said it but truly thank you for all your help.

    Kind regards Michael
     
  14. dibdab

    dibdab New Member

     
  15. dibdab

    dibdab New Member

    Hi Michael,The service No was from a group issued to members of the Royal Armoured Corps. To meet the increased demand for troops, new regiments had to be formed ie 27th Lancers. This was done by taking Officers and NCOs from established Regiments (cadres) in order to train the recruits. These were the 12th Royal Lancers, Welsh Regiment, Derbyshire Yeomenry, with recruits from basic training regiments.
    My father came from the latter and was a very good sportsman. There was a great rivalry between, not only the different Services but also different Army regiments, all of them being very competitive. Hence people like my dad would get held back in the Training Regiments for as long as possible. He joined the Lancers at Malton in N Yorks, learning to drive Humber & Daimler armoured cars and Scout cars. The Lancers were a Cavalry Regient, hence as a recruit he was not a Private, but a Trooper.
    Sailing from Liverpool at the end of Dec 43 in the Stirling Castle, they disembarked in Egypt, and were responsible for upkeep of the "Cardboard Division" in addition to patrols through N Africa and into Syria. ( more to follow)
    Regards
     
  16. dibdab

    dibdab New Member

    Michael, it is more than likely that your Grandfather came into contact with personnel from the LRDG.

    LRDG was one of three Special Forces during the African campaign, the second being the SAS. The first operation of the latter was to parachute into action, and be collected by the LRDG. This went disastrously wrong, so they changed to using jeeps, but persuaded some LRDG personnel to transfer for navigation purposes.

    The third and smallest group was the No 1 Demolition Squadron who also used the LRDG see:-

    (Wikipedia “Popski’s Private Army”).

    The CO of the 27th Lancers was Brigadier Sir Andrew Marshal Horsbrugh PORTER was a brilliant forward thinking and adaptable Officer, who served with 12th Lancers in Egypt, Germany and GB, 1927-1939; commanded D Sqdn, 12th Lancers in France, 1940. ( Google Horsburgh-Porter, Andrew Marshall (Oral history) (905)

    (You will need to page down to Oral History)

    For the fighting in N Italy he set up Porter Force, an amalgamation of forces including 27L, working with Popski and others (see below)

    See “Friends of Popski’s private army”

    The Popski Story>Popski,PPA &PPN>Vladimir Peniakoff: “Popski

    Remembrance>>” PPA Memorial” (in the Allied Special Forces Grove at the National Memorial Aboretum)

    On RHS is 27th Lancers and Porter Force

    See also WW2 Peoples War - “27th Lancers – Bare Rations, Reg Worrow”

    The Bridge – Approach to the River Po, Charlie Parsons

    www.telegraph .co.uk/news/obituaries/1471382/Rodney-Wilkinson

    The 9th/12 Royal Lancers & Derbyshire Yeomanry Museum, attached to Derby Museum & art gallery has a small no of papers for the 27L. Tel 01332 641913
     

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