Hi, I'm researching my Grandfather - Harry (William Henry) Oswin 281743 - who was a driver in the 17th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. I have his service papers that state that he was in North Africa from 25th November 1942 to 6th January 1946, also stating that he was at 'Home' before and after that period. My mum had always known that he was also in Italy due to family letters and photographs but that is not mentioned in the service papers. He was badly injured in an explosion at some point and after being in hospital he convalesced with an Italian family from where he wrote the letters, we had always assumed this was whilst he was serving in Italy. is it possible troops injured in North Africa were sent to Italy to recuperate?
There is no entry in the casualty lists for that service number. When was he injured? There should be notes in his records about being posted to the x(ii) list and mention of hospitals and convalescent units. May be better to post copies so that members can interpret them.
Alot of troops who served in Italy had BNAF (British North Africa Force) on their service records. Alluded to here. BNAF, CMF, MEF As for the wounded. It was the reverse from what you mention. Those wounded in Italy were often evacuated to north Africa. If a soldier was wounded in the fighting in north Africa he'd have only got to Italy as a POW.
I have their diary for Scotland - North Africa Operation Torch to the fall of Tunisia\AA Regiments\WO175-420 17th Regiment LAA Oct 42 - June 43. Later diaries are also at Kew Does it mention if he was in any particular battery? 50, 96 or 146 perhaps? Happy to share if you are interested There are several references to killed and wounded during that period but as Tony56 says, the record should mention X lists and those will give details of time out of the unit due to medical. See also this thread 17 LAA RA, 1943 North Africa
thanks everyone, here's his service papers, any help in deciphering this would be greatly appreciated. I can see CMF and a reference to x (ii) on 31-12-44 too so hopefully there's something to tell a story here!
Thanks for the details. As far as hospitals are concerned, the way I read his records: 31/12/44 Admitted to 108 General Hospital, posted x2 list 12/1/45 TOS (Taken on strength) from x2 list (i.e. back to unit) Hospitals WW2 - Scarlet Finders According to that it is in Brussels, interested to see what others may say.
Thanks for posting the service record. It actually looks like, strictly, your grandfather served in the RASC (Royal Army Service Corps) rather than 17th LAA Regiment. This is very similar to my fathers service at this time. I'll re read the record and post a bit more of an explanation later today and see what I can find in the way of diary references for the RASC units. The main regiment diary would still be of interest as their RASC company would have been their main source of supplies and ammunition so wherever they were, you can be fairly confident your grandfather would have been in the vicinity. The main point is there could well be more 'location' type detail in the regiment diary as RASC diaries can be a bit sparse. Reading together and you can build up a pretty good narrative. Re the reference to 108 General hospital in Brussels, makes no sense based on his service record so I would suggest a straight typo by the army clerks. Unless 'GH' - General Hospital - is a very badly written something else?
Looking at the record in a bit more detail Initially posted to 927 GT (General Transport) Company where he remains until 6 6 42. From their diary, WO166/9142 they would have been home based. He was then posted to 17th LAA Regiment Platoon. This was the RASC supply unit specifically (at that time) set up to follow and supply 17 LAA Regiment. There appears to be just one diary for the unit with that designation which is WO166/9443 and although it is just for a single month, it is for June 42 when your Grandfather joined. However, 17th LAA Regt Pltn was (along with their regiment) part of 22nd AA Brigade which in the second half of 42 were in Scotland and from one of the brigade diaries, I can see that 17 LAA RASC Platoon was at Cumstoun House, Twynholm, Kirkubrightshire in September. You have the date for going overseas and this all tallies. Now, these RASC units were mostly renumbered in early 1943 and 17th LAA Regiment Platoon became 1538 Coy and the diaries then run as follows WO175/987 Dec 42 - June 43. This will cover their time in Algeria / Tunisia WO169/12053 July 43 - Dec 43 This will cover the start of the Italian campaign WO170/2645 1944 WO170/5892 Jan to May 45 Although there may not be much detail, the three latter diaries will be the ones to obtain for any mention of that injury. Now, I agree, his papers do indeed suggest he was in North Africa 25 11 42 to 6 1 46 but if he was definitely in 1538 for the periods of the service record then the unit diaries suggest strongly (by the WO170) record series code, that they were likely to be in Italy. The image is an extract from the 22nd AA Brigade diary but there is a reference to the same location in the regimental history. 17th LAA Pl was under command of 22nd AA Brigade and (along with my fathers unit and others) were responsible for the supply of light and heavy AA regiments throughout the campaign in Algeria and Tunisia.
thanks for this, lots to get on with! I've got a couple of questions: - when you say "he three latter diaries will be the ones to obtain" I assume this means a trip to Kew? - just out of interest how many of these RASC supply unites would be assigned to 17th/1538?
Sorry I should have been clearer. For a full picture you would need all the diaries I suggested but I was suggesting the 3 latter ones as likely to cover the incident that you mention on the basis that it had occurred in Italy. If you made the trip to Kew I would not expect these diaries to be particularly large so copying 5 or 6 should be easy to achieve in a day visit. However if you want some idea of the bigger picture, at least for the period after Torch to the fall of Tunisia then as 17th LAA RASC Pl were part of 22nd AA Brigade, their diaries, and those of its own RASC support (465 Coy) are worth reading. If you are serious I would be happy to share those. As to your second question. I don't think that's how it worked. 17th LAA Regiment was part of 22nd AA Brigade which consisted of a total of 4 anti-aircraft regiments, 58HAA, 80HAA, 11LAA and 17LAA. (and each of their batteries). Each (although not the individual batteries) had its own RASC supply platoon and there was an overall brigade supply company (as mentioned above, 465Coy). Although nominally designated as per the AA regiments, it looks to me from the diaries I do have that there was an expectation that all 4 / 5 RASC units operated as a team and supplied whichever AA regiment / battery was appropriate (from a logistics point of view) plus both themselves and 22AA Brigade itself. This is an extract from 11LAA Regiment Platoon diary (my fathers) from early February 43 that shows how they supplied across the board and it may well be that you will find similar in 17LAA RASC too. It looks like my father could have delivered your grandfathers lunch! Broke Bulk and delivery of rations to:: 11 LAA Regt RASC Pln; Rear HQ 11 LAA Regt RA; 17 LAA Regt RASC Pln; RHQ 58 Regt HAA Regt RA; 208 HAA Bty RA; HQ 22 AA Bde; 22 AA Bde Coy RASC; 347 LAA Bty RA So to answer the second question. I think it would be a pretty loose interpretation to suggest any of these RASC units were 'locked' to the regiments of the same name and indeed the renaming that took place in early 43 may well have been to break the perceived link that may have grown up but which was perhaps only fully relevant during the period when these units were formed (during the first part of 42 and most likely to support wherever the next front was to be opened) and which made sense as they trained in the UK. Certainly my fathers unit diary has lost most references to AA regiments as the Tunisian campaign drew to a close and was more involved in dock clearance. I'm no expert but that would be my take on what was happening and you would need to read your specific unit diaries to see if that pattern was repeated. Due to illness my father dropped out of 11th Pl (1532) and after a period went forward to Italy with a new unit that was mainly used in support of artillery (medium) regiments within an AGRA - Army Group Royal Artillery. Graham
Hi, thanks for all the information, I showed everything to my mum so she has a little more understanding of his service now. I'll head to Kew when I can/things are normal there and see what else I can find out.
i originally read this as '108 S.H.' Could this be a Surgical Hospital or Station Hospital rather than a General Hospital ?
HIs record summary sheet shows: Home - 7.8.1941 - 24.11.1942 N Africa - 25.11.1942 - 6.1.1946 Home - 7.1.1946 - 4.2.1946 Reserve - 5.2.1946 - 28.10.1950 So wasnt in NW Europe I would also read the medial facility as 108 S H - the US did have Station Hospitals it may have been one of these
