1RTR and 1st Bn (Motor) Rifle Brigade. 7 Armd Div 1944 to 1945

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by adrianp, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. adrianp

    adrianp Junior Member

    I am trying to identify the names of officers, WOs and NCOs who served with 1 RTR and 1 Btn (Motor) Rifle Brigade, 22 Armoured Brigade 7 Armoured Div from D-Day to VE Day.

    I have contacted the archives of the RAC museum, National Army Museum and Green Jackets Museum with mixed and scant results, can anyone help please?
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    That's quite an undertaking!

    Here's the fairly-famous list of 1 R Tks vehicle names, which also lists their commanders. That should account for the majority of officers, WOs and NCOs in the sabre squadrons at D-Day.

    The best bet for officers would be the weekly field returns that are sometimes included in the war diaries. These should list all officers and - often - their appointments.
     

    Attached Files:

    Ramiles likes this.
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    It should be noted that the Officer immediately under MaJor Bob Crispy - Capt later Major JB Smethusrt - is the late Father of one of our members- Susan Smethurst. - He was very badly injured in the last two weeks of the war and slowly recovered to an active life as minister of the Church of England


    Major Crisp went on to write the now famous " Brazen Chariots' which highlights Desert war in Tanks and is an excellent read for those who never fought in Tanks

    Major Smedhurst brother Major AB Smethust won his M.C. at Anzio with 5th RTR and just recently died in Nottingham at age 90 odd.
    Cheers
     
  4. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Adrian,

    The weekly Field Returns of Officers includes a nominal roll of all officer's names. The equivalent Other Ranks Field Return, however, is limited to numbers only although occasionally a name or two crops up in the section for "ORs whose return is particulary sort after" - something like that anyway:)

    There are several people on this forum who would copy the war diaries for you (try Unit Documents section and ask the question) for a fee.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  5. Susan Smethurst

    Susan Smethurst Senior but too talkative

    My dear friend Tom alerted me to this thread. Have been away from forum for a while but always happy to engage on subject of 1st RTR.
     
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    When the 24th Lancers was disbanded at the end of July 1944 there were a number of transfers to the 1 RTR... (A,B,C,HQ - refs refer to the 24th L squadron that they were previously in)...

    2nd Lieutenant B.H.Dehnel * (See further below)
    2nd Lieutenant C.S.Bristow

    A/Sergeant Caulfield, J.T. - Gunner/ Operator - A
    A/Sergeant Jones, A. - Gunner/ Mechanic - A

    Lance/Sergeant Bartlett, F.W. - Driver/ Operator - A
    Lance/Sergeant Mills, A.F.C. - Driver/ Operator - C

    W/Corporal Roper, R. - Driver/ Mechanic - C
    A/Corporal Kyle, R.W. - Gunner/ Operator - A
    A/Corporal Luker, W. - Driver/ Operator - A
    A/Corporal Shorter, W.C.P. - Driver/ Operator - A

    Lance/Corporal Arno, J.J. - Gunner/ Operator - A - Casualty Details | CWGC
    Lance/Corporal Field, E. - Gunner/ mechanic / Intelligence Corporal - HQ then A Squadron. Casualty Details | CWGC
    Lance/Corporal Haygarth, S. -
    Lance/Corporal Lewis J.E. - Driver/ Operator - C
    Lance/Corporal Lilley, W. - Driver/ Mechanic - A
    Lance/Corporal Prentice, F.S. - Driver/ Mechanic - C
    Lance/Corporal Roberts A.R. - Driver/ Operator - C

    Troopers

    Andrews, A.E. - Gunner/ mechanic - A Squadron.
    Burgin, K. - Gunner/Operator - C
    Chinar, E. - Gunner/mechanic - A - Casualty Details | CWGC
    Goodman, S.A. - Gunner/mechanic - C
    Hespin, K. - Gunner/mechanic - A - Casualty Details | CWGC
    Higgs, C.D. - Gunner/Operator - A
    Hughes, P.B. - Co-Driver/ Loader? - HQ
    Jackson, W. - Gunner/Operator - C
    Johnston, H.R. - Unspecified
    Phillips, J.G. - Driver/Mechanic - A
    Phillipson, L. - Gunner/mechanic - A -
    Pope, F.A. - Unspecified
    Ryder, S. - Gunner/Operator - C
    Taylor, R. - Gunner/Operator - C
    Vaughan, K. - Gunner/mechanic - A - Later Lance Corporal - Casualty Details | CWGC
    Ward, F.P. - Gunner/Operator - C
    Wenman, D.R.E. - Gunner/mechanic - A
    Williams, S.T. - Gunner/Operator - A
    Williams, C. - Unspecified- Co-Driver/ loader possibly - C
    Wilson, H. - Gunner/Operator - A
    Wood, A.S. - Gunner/Operator - A

    * And somewhat confusingly...
    24th Lancers - Roll of Honour
    With a slightly different army number - 314422 rather than the Nominal Rolls 324411...

    Dehnel.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    dbf likes this.
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Re. Lance/Corporal Field, Eric - Gunner/ mechanic / Intelligence Corporal - HQ then A Squadron in the 24th Lancers, prior to his transfer at the start of August 1944 to 1 RTR...

    Casualty Details | CWGC

    doc2234659.JPG

    There are some crew details in...

    a dalesman's war

    That relate to Stan Haygarth...

    After the 24th Lancers was disbanded "the men of the Regiment were send as quickly as possible to other regiments, wherever possible keeping the tank crews together...."

    ".... Stan, Phil his co-driver, the gunner, the radio operator and the tank commander found themselves sent to B Squadron, 1st Battalion, Royal Tank Regiment."
    Further descriptions follow until August 27th, when Stan's tank was hit and he was badly burned along with his co-driver Phil, but survived. "The gunner, wireless operator and the tank commander who had been in the rear part of the tank, which sustained the brunt of the hit, were dead
    .."

    It mentions 3 kia with the 1 RTR in Stan's crew. The tank commander, gunner and wireless operator.

    I'm not sure, but possibly Lance Sergeant D. Spencer, was the tank commander and one of the Lance Corporals was the wireless operator.

    Lance Sergeant Donald Spencer - (7894468) - Casualty Details | CWGC

    Alternatively, Lance/Corporal Eric Field, may himself have been Stan's tank commander at this point, particularly if "the 24th Lancer crews" had been "kept together".

    Rm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    And...

    Re. ex-24th Lancer Peter Bloor Hughes there's a previously seen ref. here...

    Hudson vet awarded French Legion of Honour medal | Montreal Gazette

    Referring to his 1 RTR crew etc. And the 23rd August 1944... with...

    (warning- some graphic descriptions * I've removed some details here * )

    On Aug. 23, 1944, he was wounded in Lisieux, a small town in Normandy, when his tank was struck. “I still to this day don’t know what hit it,” he said, speculating that it may have been another tank or a rocket-propelled grenade.
    “Three of my crew were killed.”
    Hughes escaped with another soldier, though they both had second-degree burns and multiple shrapnel wounds. * “It was a very upsetting experience.”
    He left the tank, disoriented, not sure which lines were German and which were British any more.
    “I scrambled out and I didn’t know which way to go,” he explained. Hughes picked a direction and, luckily, found himself on the British lines. “I can’t to this day understand why, when I staggered across the square, I wasn’t shot by the Germans.”
     
  10. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    From ref. #2 above...

    20210323_080853.jpg

    There is a Corporal D Spencer - A Squadron - Wireless Station 7B - Between Astrid & Andromedda - it's a little hard to make out, but it may perhaps be ANTOINETTE.

    And is perhaps the Lance Sergeant Donald Spencer - (7894468) - mentioned in post #8.

    And: Tank names & WD numbers - 1 RTR June 1944

    Has...

    No 3 Troop
    Angel T.190032
    Astrid T.121740
    Antoinette T.189560
    Andromeda T.212699
     
  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Re. 2nd Lt. Christopher Stanley Bristow - 303254

    On the 24th L's Nominal Roll at disbandment as having gone to the 1 R.Tks.

    Army number: 303254

    Nb. He appears to be 302254 - in some records currently (Nominal roll at disbandment of the 24th Lancers) however can't seem to see much on "302254" in the London Gazette.

    Curiously in...
    Page 280 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 14th JANUARY, 1944...
    There's the entry...
    Bedfs. & Herts. R.
    14591251 John Richard BARNWELL (302254).

    However...

    SUPPLEMENT, TO THE. LONDON GAZETTE, ,18 JANUARY, 1944 p345... has... 14306236 Christopher Stanley BRISTOW (303254).

    So - 303254, rather than 302254.

    Also appearing online, and very possibly "him"... (especially as his father's initials were S.R. and these match "Stanley Rowland Bristow") ....

    Christopher Stanley Bristow was born in 1924, to Stanley Rowland Bristow and Emily May Bristow (born Marriott) .
    Stanley was born on September 12 1897, in Lambeth, London, UK.
    Emily was born on May 1 1898, in Tilbury, Essex. UK.
    Christopher married first name Bristow (born Fredman) in 1948, at age 23.
    Christopher passed away in 1998, at age 73
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
  12. Ian Wiseman

    Ian Wiseman Member

    Hello Adrian p.
    I have only just joined this forum and saw your enquiry today.
    Regarding 1 Bn Rifle Brigade, my Father in Law was in B Company from 1941 to 47. My wife has just self published his memoirs. I could scan through that and report any officers named therein to you or you may prefer to obtain the book for yourself (Waterstones/Amazon etc have it) "My Wartime Wanderings" by Kenneth L Phillips, edited by Ann Wiseman.
    Let me know if you just want a list from me.
    Ian Wiseman
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Hello, Ian.
    I've just ordered a copy. Not sure who's to blame for the pricing but it's annoying how many books are just under Amazon's £10 threshold for free delivery. Now I've got two books on their way...
    Cheers for the heads-up though.
     
  14. Ian Wiseman

    Ian Wiseman Member

    Being very honest we had no idea about Amazon's threshold for free delivery when the price was set. It's actually priced just above break even because it was intended to honour Ken's legacy not make money so we wanted it to be as cheap as possible. It never crossed our minds about the Amazon free delivery issue! Hope you enjoy it :)
     
    Chris C likes this.
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I'm sure I will. B Coy was their Support Coy (at least in NW Europe, I'm a bit vaguer on the desert episode) so that will be an interesting slant on things.
    Hope it does well.
     
  16. Ian Wiseman

    Ian Wiseman Member

    For anyone wishing to purchase the book just a heads up that Waterstones have some sort of technical issue whereby you can order the book successfully but they then email a few days later to cancel it saying its not available. No such problems with Amazon. Of course its also available from all other booksellers on order - ISBN 978-1-78963-174-6. I will post a synopsis of the content in the books section of the forum.
     
  17. Ian Wiseman

    Ian Wiseman Member

    Pleased to find this (the first) review on Amazon - no idea who the reviewer is :)
    By the way we have sent an update to Amazon and all other sellers re the incorrect element in the metadata description (anti-tank division is obviously wrong!) but they have not as yet updated......
    [​IMG]

    5.0 out of 5 stars First class book.
    Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 17 May 2021

    This is an excellent book, Ann Wiseman has done a first class job of bringing her Dad's memoirs to the general public. This should be read by today's youngsters (many of whom seem to think, after watching Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, that the British didn't take part in the D-day landings and the campaign in North West Europe) to see what their Grandparents and Great Grandparents went through between 1939-1945, Ken also served in North Africa and Italy. I won't say too much about Ken's story, so not to spoil it for anyone else who is thinking of buying it, all l will say is, don't buy it based on amazons description above, the British army didn't have any anti-tank divisions during WW2. Ken served in an anti-tank platoon of the Rifle Brigade.
     

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