Hi everyone, my father, who was evacuated from the beach at La Panne, near Dunkirk 70 years ago last week, left the UK once again, bound this time for the Middle East on or around the 28th September 1941. According to his service records, he went with 1st Armoured Division Workshops, RAOC. I think that 1st Arm Div arrived in Egypt in mid-late November. Any one have any idea to which Corps they were subordinated when they got there? His Form B200s says "Embarked ME Serial 0090". Has anyone any idea what Serial 0090 means? Also there is a small scribble which says "Ship No. 262", once again, has anyone any idea what this may indicate. I am currently thinking along the lines that he will have travelled on the WS convoy no 12 which departed on 30 Sep 1941. One last thing. on his Army Form B102, it has 4 locations, 'ME', 'NA' and 'H' twice. All are scored out apart from the last 'H'. Has anyone any idea what the location the 'H' represents. It might have something to do with Greece as he went there with 23rd Arm Bde in 1944 (Hellas?). Thanks in advance, Gus.
Gus - Dianne has it right - my only thought is that possibly the dates of arriving in Egypt might be a bit off as not a lot is heard about them in any of the battles of late '41 and most of '42 when they appear to turn up AFTER - Alum el Halfa and in time for Monty's infamous Corps de Chasse at El Alamein - of 1st - 7th and 10th Armoured Divs being in Xth Corps under the Command of Lt.Gen Lumsden wherin they all got lost near Fuka and running out of petrol and being stuck in the mud etc. They finally came into their own at El Hamma with the first blitzkreig of the British Army under Lt.Gen.Brian Horrocks - after Lumsden was fired by Monty - when 1st Armoured along with the Kiwi's did a left hook around the Mareth Line to make a dent in both 15th and 21st Panzers while the newly reformed US II Corps- after Kasserine - under Patton were mauled by the half strength 10th Panzers near Gabes. Thus the second Blitzkreig had to take place from Medjez el Bab to Tunis and Cap Bon but with both 6th and 7th Armoured Divs to finish off that campaign. The 1st Armoured then stayed in Tunisia until called for to the Gothic line more than a year later - didn't do so well and were broken up for spares in the October of 1944. Re-constsituted after the war and played a significant part in Irag 1 - 1991 ! Hope this helps Cheers
Hi, thanks for the replies. I've found a ref in Winston Churchills accounts of WW2 (vol 4) which states that 1st Arm Div arrived in Egypt in Nov 42. After the vehicles were converted for desert figthting at Cairo (prob Genaifa) all 150 tanks were moved on transporters to Antelat. There they joined 13th Corps. They were involved in a series of actions as the allies withdrew from Agheila to Derna in January 1942 during which they lost 100 of their tanks, most of which simply ran out of fuel. Dad was sick/wounded on 27 July 1942, towards the end of 1st Battle of El Alamein and spent 10 days in hospital. Then he spent the rest of his time in North Africa with the 94th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment. Looks like I'll have to go to Kew as info on 94 HAA Regt is even scarcer than 1st Arm Div. However Dad was again admitted, this time for a week, into the 53rd General Hospital at Haifa on 24 Apr 44 so it looks like he went to Palestine for a while. Dad joined the 23rd Armoured Brigade Workshops REME in July 1944 who were sent into Greece in November, minus their tanks. He soon got caught up in a full blown Civil war. On 21st December 1944, he was trapped, along with 240 others in the Ymittos district of Athens, as their workshops had come under intense small arms and mortar fire from Communist ELAS insurgents. They were only saved on the 22nd December 1944 by a daring rescue mission involving armoured cars of B Sqn of the Kings Dragoon Guards.
Gmiles - was wondering where you went to - have found a bit more on 1st Armoured in Barrie Pitt's "Auchinleck's command" - and your first date of Sept '41 appears to be correct notwithstanding Churchills reference. they are quoted as being the 2nd and 22nd Armoured Brigades of 1st Armoured under Lumsden - then Norrie of XXX corps consisting of 2nd Glosters - 3 CLY and 4th CLY - and The Bays - 9th Lancers and 10th Hussars in the 22nd ArmBde - bit of a hodge podge though as they were new to the desert and were involved in the Crusader battle and took a bit of a beating at Sidi Resigh and recovered in time for the Gazala gallop and first Alemain - then on to the Mareth line Mar '43 - and nothing until the Gothic Line Sept '44 - where they were joined by 4th Hussars as a recce unit and broken up in the October '44- as I say it was bit of a hodge podge as they floated around from Xth Corps - X111 corps - the 22nd went home with 7th Armoured Div and some joined 23rd Arm Bde- stayed in Italy then on to Greece..... Cheers
Hi Tom, thanks again. Apologies but I must get my dates right in future. The year WC states in his book is of course Nov 41, not 42 as in my thread above. You are right about Gazala as I found a mention of 1st Armoured Div on a ME report by Gen Auchinlek on the London Gazette website. I will have a look at this new info and see what comes up. Unfortunately Orders of Battle doesn't seem to be working at he moment,which is a shame as it can be really useful seeing where units fit in. Thanks again. Gus.
Gus - you are right about the Order of Battle as even Barrie Pitt - usually a stickler about those details fails to mention 2nd Armoured Bde in the Crusader battle but mentions them in the text and has the 22nd Armoured Bde in the XXX corps under Norrie and in 7th Armoured under Strafer Gott. This was the famous Sidi Resigh debacle....when Jock Campbell won his V.C. Then in the Gazala Gallop the 1st Armoured of 2nd - 22nd and 201 Guards under Lumsden they are again in XXX corps with Norrie -along with 7th Armoured under Messervy - this was the infamous time after the changeover from Cunningham to Ritchie which led to the rout and the loss of Tobruk - and the scamper back to the El Alemain line - with very few tanks left in running order - and Auchinlek finally took over ! It was one big mess until Monty took over in the August ! Cheers
Hi Everyone I'm off to NA for the first time tomorrow and I'm struggling to find the War Diary for either the "1st Armoured Division Workshops" RAOC or "1 Div Sec 2 A/Tps W/s" which I can only translate to being an "Army" or more probably "Armoured" Troops Workshop RAOC. Anything for Sep 41 in the UK or the ME from Nov 41 to July 42 would be really great. I've tried every combination and found nothing that comes close. Many thanks in advance Gus
I think 1st Armoured entered battle in December 1941, taking over from 7th Armoured in the final stage of the pursuit and then the short stalemate west of Agedabia. They were very badly trashed by the Afrika Korps in the counter-offensive between 22 January and 6 February, losing most of their tanks (many of those due to mechanical failure and lack of petrol), and retreated back into the Gazala position. On 7 Feb 42 War Office presumed they had 128 Cruisers left, mostly 2nd Armoured Brigade and a composite regiment from 22nd Armoured Brigade. At that date a reserve column and 200th Guards Brigade (which was under command 1st Armoured during the period) were forward, with the remainder of the division in the rear, presumably sorting itself out. You can get some more information here: 8th Army's Order of Battle and Tank Strength after CRUSADER 7 February 1942 - The Crusader Project and on ***World War II, a British focus*** where the war diaries of 2 RGH and 3/4 CLY are of particular interest. Hope this helps. All the best Andreas
Thanks for this Andreas. I unfortunately didn't read this until I got back. But I still managed to photo about 300 pages of war diary covering all of my Dads time during WW2. I even found him by name which I really didn't expect. I am planning to go back later in the year so I will have a look then at the stuff you recommend. Thanks again Gus
Hi Gus I'd be happy to share some relevant files with you. I'd be interested in your dad's war diary for the CRUSADER period. Send me a PM. The recommendations above are internet links. All the best Andreas
Hi Dad didn't actually arrive in Egypt until December of 41 which I think is just after Crusader. So I didn't copy that period I'm afraid. I am aware that some of 1st Arm Div did go to Egypt a little bit earlier (22 Arm Bde) and ended up I think with 13th Corps. 1st Arm Div was the only one I had trouble with getting the right diaries especially over the time that he with them. Sorry I couldn't help you with that. Dad was with the 1st Arm Div Workshops until July 42 when he was hospitalised for a week and then joined the 94th HAA Regt until June 44 when he joined 23rd Arm Bde Workshops in Palestine who then went to Greece in Nov 44. If there's anything I can help you with just let me know. Gus
Hi Gus What I need is Jan/Feb 42 in fact. 22nd AB was with 30 Corps and then its remains with 13 Corps, first under 7th Armoured and then under 1st Armoured, at which point it was reduced to a composite regiment. All the best Andreas
