701176 Harold Raymond BEGGS, 1st Bn Royal Ulster Rifles & 12 Commando

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by Eiley Beggs Yorke, Sep 24, 2022.

  1. Hi there, my maternal grandad Harold Raymond Beggs was in the 1st Battalion RUR service number 701176. He enlisted on 04/03/1932 when he was 16 years old.
    I’m currently having a long wait waiting for his service records so wondered if any experts on here could enlighten me, I’m trying to piece his movements together as I know he was with the 6th Airborne glider troops on D Day and landed at Ranville. He was also in No 12 Commando and I’m wondering if he was possibly involved in the raid on St Nazaire. He is listed as a CSM Beggs in the D Day units website and as a TSM Beggs in the No 12 commando nominal roll.
    If anyone is clued up on this I would really appreciate your input. I’m so sad I never met my grandad, he died years before I was born of a brain haemorrhage aged 56 leaving my gran and mum and uncle, but I feel as if I’ve known him my whole life because mum and gran were so good at keeping his memory alive by talking about him all the time.

    Any help will be most appreciated.
    Thanks, Eiley Beggs Yorke
     

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  2. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Eiley,
    Your grandfather may have served with 12 Commando until the unit was disbanded in August 1943?
    I couldn't find a reference to his participation in Operation Chariot, the raid on St. Nazaire.

    Personnel-15

    When 12 Commando was disbanded most men were cross posted to other Army Commando units.

    It appears as though C.S.M. Beggs returned to his original Regiment, 1st Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles. His original Battalion had been converted to the 1st (Airborne) Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles. They were now a glider borne unit and landed on the evening of D-Day on Landing Zone N, near Ranville

    1st Battalion The Royal Ulster Rifles | ParaData

    All the questions will be answered on the arrival of his service records
    Good luck with your research
    Guy
     
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  3. Thankyou so much for your help, I’m hoping it won’t be much longer for the service records although I know they’re inundated with requests! Thanks for this info though! Appreciate it.
     
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  4. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Your grandfather appears in this 12 Commando reunion photograph on the Commando Veterans Archive website. Send Pete the archivist your grandfather's photographs and he will add them to the website.

    No.12 Commando veterans
     
  5. Thanks, Gramps has this photo in his army photo album, it’s great! This would be about 2 years before he passed away sadly.
    Thanks for the advice I’ll do that
     
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  6. David Woods

    David Woods Active Member

    Hello Eiley,
    Welcome to WW2Talk.
    I suspect that your grandfather had a very interesting time in the army, so his service record should be worth the wait.

    Your post suggests to me that you are already in possession of a document that gives the service number 701176, age 16 and date of enlistment 04.03.1932, of Harold Raymond Beggs? Pay book perhaps?

    If so, I'm sure that members would be interested in seeing it.

    His service number 701176, indicates that he enlisted as a Boy soldier with the Hussars.
    Unless there is digit missing?

    Enlisted 04.03.1932 with Hussars 701176
    Hussars 528001 to 721000
    Royal Ulster Rifles 7006001 to 7040000
    Royal Irish Regiment 7109001 to 7143000

    His name and service number do not show up on searches of Ancestry and Find My Past. Indicating that he was not a casualty or awarded the General Service Medal for service in pre and post war campaigns.

    Unless you possess evidence to the contrary, it's possible he did not serve with the Royal Ulster Rifles before joining 12 Commando.

    In the story "Memories by Paddy Devlin." He states that RSM Griffiths was the only soldier left in the ranks of 1st R.U.R. from pre-airborne days. This suggests CSM Beggs did not serve with 1st R.U.R. before 1942, but it is not proof.

    While Harold Raymond Beggs is not listed on the GSM rolls for India, he clearly did serve in India, as shown in one of your photo's. He can be seen with the sign post N.W.F.P. (North West Frontier Police) in the background. He does not appear to be wearing military uniform. So did he serve with the North West Frontier Police? Is this photo cropped from a larger photo? It would be good to read all of the signage!


    Harold Raymond Beggs, N.W.F.P.jpg


    The only reference I can find to CSM Beggs is in the book "The Rifles Are There." On page 117 it states (edit), Major Charles Vickery commanded "A" Company. Within Company HQ were C/Sgt. O'Connor and CSM Beggs.

    Shown below is a very poor quality photo of "A" Company, with CSM Beggs sitting in the customary position, at the right shoulder of O.C. Major Charles Vickery.


    1st Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles, A Coy, 5th June, 1944.jpg


    Are these two men the same person? I think so!


    CSM Harold Raymond Beggs, 1st Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles.jpg


    At this time, there is no evidence to suggest CSM Beggs did not serve with 1st R.U.R. in the Ardennes/Holland, on Varsity and in Germany. His service record will answer those questions.

    Best of luck with your research!
     
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  7. Thankyou so much, I got his service number from Gavin at the Royal Ulster Rifles museum in Belfast who had a record of this somewhere.
    I really can’t wait to read his service records and find out about his movements as he was at interesting character!
    Once I get those I will update the thread, the photo of him in India was one of many in his military photo album pre ww2. It will be very interesting to know what he was doing out there, I was always told by gran and mum that he was in the royal Ulster rifles, only recently discovered he served with 12 commando but I knew he signed up very young and was. Junior band member. Thanks for all your help, it’s an interesting journey!
     

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  8. Here is a photo mum gave me of him with 12 commando. He is laying on the ground centre r of the photo reclining like a cool dude.
     

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  9. Hello Guy, according to the RUR museum they have him in the RUR enlistment register with that service number. The whole thing is so confusing, the sooner I get the service records the better.
     
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  10. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    An interesting piece explaining the Northern Irish origins of No.12 Commando.
    All Army Commando units were made up entirely of volunteers.

    Volunteers for No 12 Commando gathered in Belfast and Londonderry and marched the 67 miles to Crumlin where the unit was formed on 5th August 1940 under C.O. Lt. Col S.S. Harrison MC &bar (nickname Peachy).


    Drawn from Irish Regiments, and from the 53rd and 61st Divisions who were stationed in Northern ireland at the time, initial training was carried out in various locations including a dummy raid on Aldergrove Airport. From their billets in Crumlin, Co Antrim, early in 1941 the Commando moved to Warsash on the Hamble River but were there only a short time before moving to Inveraray in April for amphibious training. No 12 Commando remained outside the Special Service Brigade system and operated mostly under the original Commando idea of small raiding parties and sabotage groups.

    Courtesy of the Commando Veterans Archive
     
  11. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    C.S.M Beggs was certainly with 1RUR in January and in A Company in May 1944 and it also seems he was a bit of an athlete....

    Extract from the 1st Battalion Newsletter in the "Magazine of The Royal Ulster Rifles - Volume XI November 1944"
    ========================================
    ROAD RELAY RACE.
    The Battalion entered a team of four for the News of the World Road Relay Race at Mitcham on the 29th January. There was a record entry of 31 teams. The Battalion team came in 3rd. Each competitor had to run three miles making the total distance twelve miles. The team consisted of Capt. Martin, C.S.M. Beggs, Cpl. Simpson, and Rfn. Hicks


    SPORTS.
    The Battalion Sports meeting was held on the 12th May. The inter-company competition was won by “A” Company with Support Company second. The detailed results are set out below:

    Event Coy Team Names
    One Mile A Company Capt. Martin Lieut. R. N. Morgan, Rfn. Hicks, and Cpl. Simpson
    Javelin D Company Lieut. Munro, Lieut. Malcolm
    Hammer D Company Lieut. Munro, Lieut. Malcolm
    Long Jump A Company L/Cpl. Hall, Rfn. Coulter
    100 Yards S Company Lieut. Campbell, Cpl. Ferris, Rfn. Wallace, Rfn. Kelly
    Cricket Ball S Company Rfn. Burgess, R.S.M. Griffiths
    880 Yards A Company Capt. Martin, Lieut. Morgan, Cpl. Brown, Rfn. Hicks
    High Jump S Company Sgt. Rayner, Rfn. Evans
    Pole Vault S Company R.S.M. Griffiths, Rfn. Keogh
    220 Yards S Company Lieut. Campbell, Cpl. Ferris, Rfn. Wallace, Rfn. Keily
    Shot S Company Rfn. Evans, Lieut. Hindson
    Tug of War B Company
    440 Yards A Company Capt Martin, Rfn. Martin, Rfn. McKelvey. Lieut. Morgan
    Discus A Company Rfn Short, Cpl. Southam
    3 miles A Company C.S.M. Beggs, Cpl. Simpson, Rfn. Hicks, L/Cpl. Thompson
    Old Soldiers Race A Company Rfn. Short, C.S.M. Haydon


    Apart from the inter-company Competition several good performances were put up by individuals. Lieut. Munro won the Hammer with a throw of 110 ft. 5 ins. R.S.M. Griffiths had a good day by winning the Cricket Ball with 261 ft. 5 ins. , the Pole Vault with 9 feet and the Javelin with 153 ft. 9 ins.

    Bn. H.Q won the Bicycle Relay Race, the Commanding Officer showed a fine turn of speed on a War Department machine.

    Major Drummond was responsible for the running of the meeting. As a result, a pleasant and enjoyable afternoon was had by the competitors and also by the spectators.
    ==========================================


    This information would tie in with the photo of A Company 1 RUR taken just before D-Day and the official history of their actions in Normandy can be found here.. 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 1RUR Summer 1944


    Quis Separabit
     
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  12. Thankyou very much for finding and supplying this information, it was lovely to read. I’m still waiting on the MOD to let me know if they’ve found his Service records, they seem to have a terrible backlog at the moment as been waiting since July! Anyway thanks again, that made me smile.
     
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  13. Following on from this I just received my Grandad’s service records and discovered he signed up at 15 years 6 days and was a talented bandsman. We was with 12 Commando from 1940 until 1944 when he was sent back to 1st battalion royal ulster rifles to join the 6th Airborne division for D Day. I was really touched to read his service record which notes what a good natured and kind man he was. I appreciate everyone’s input on here so Thankyou again
     
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  14. SGMAC

    SGMAC New Member

    Late to the party I’m afraid. I was doing a search as I do now and again on Paddy Devlin to see what might crop up and saw this post. I have Paddy’s original draft papers and notes that he used to write his book. I can have a look and see what I might find, thought it may take a while.

    My grandfather was in 1st Batt A Coy RUR, having been brought in from India, Charles McCrea. My late father did an awful lot of digging pre-accessibility of the modern internet and somehow managed to get in contact with Paddy who was more than willing to share his many stories and send across some of his memories. It’s great to see others who still recollect things from this bygone era to keep their memories alive.
     
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  15. Thank you so much for your comment, what a humble yet heroic generation of men they were. Is Paddy still with us? It would be wonderful if you could ask him if he knew my grandfather as I’m more than certain he would have. I had quite an amusing read through my Grandads service records as they contained a few witness statements regarding my grandfather getting his nose broken on a fight over someone borrowing his rifle and taking too long to return it thought I’d see some interesting information about the war but nope…just lots of scuffles within the battalion anyway thanks again for your comment and good luck finding more information for Paddy, like I said feel free to ask him if he knew Grandad and show him his photographs. this is one of the wonders of the internet!
     
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  16. SGMAC

    SGMAC New Member

    Paddy I believe died in the early 2000s unfortunately. I have managed to find some of his notes last night so I’ll have a good look through them later this week. Coincidently, there’s a Paddy Devlin documentary on Irish channel TG4 that’s being broadcast tomorrow night. The producers informed me today that anyone can watch it if they create an account to watch it online.

    I will give you a shout on here once I’ve had a look through the notes sure.
     
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  17. Thankyou very much, I’ve only just logged in for the first time this year and seen your message so apologies for not replying sooner!
     
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